US is the no. 1 polluter in the world

[August]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

So far US has been the no. 1 opponent of all global anti-pollution efforts. And so far Obama hasn't done anything to counter this.

From your own link:

State sues utility for U.S. pollution violations

I've highlighted the important parts for you...

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Task Force

Im just wondering... whats this thing with OneToughHerring... and this strange hate of the United States...

It's called "Enemy". Do you think OTH really cares about the environment? Give him anything, and he will tailor it to make points against the US. It doesn't matter what it is: Environment, economy, religion, war.

Those who hate the US got one thing right: You might be a bit naive. And it shows when you try to reason with those who hate you, e.g. right here in this thread. But then again, that's what makes the difference between the free people of your country, and the people of some other countries who - in public schools and on state sponsored TV - are taught beforehand what to think about the world, including an Anti-US resentment. Be it on the Native Americans, be it on nuclear armament and foreign policy during the Cold War, be it on the economy, be it on social security, be it on the environment, be it on gun ownership, or be it on freedom of speech (translated into "ignorance" or "insensitivity"). See, it's because their own governments are afraid that their people might otherwise become too American themselves and discover that the biggest monopolist, money waster, liar and hack-job is the government itself. In their OWN countries.

As long as you can blame all the world's problems on those ignorant, delusional and SUV-driving Americans, the party of building up the EUSSR back home can go on undisturbed.

Originally Posted by August

From your own link:



I've highlighted the important parts for you...

Yes...? This prevents the US from being the no. 1 opponent of global anti-pollution measures in what way?

Originally Posted by Platapus

I guess the first thing is to do is define and bound the problem

1. What is "pollution" (and what is not)?
2. How does one measure "pollution"?
3. How does one collect the measurements across an area (earth)?
4. What is the method for analyzing the measurements?

Until those are answered, I can't opine whether one country is #1 or not.

Well I already tried to find a definition in my OP.

1. Waste/pollution can be solid, liquid, gaseous or radioactive materials
2. Some definitions of what pollution is, a starting off point for measuring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste#Definitions
And also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polluti...s_of_pollution
My original idea was to think more about 'concrete' waste/pollution but things such as noise pollution and visual pollution are good points also.
3. Do you mean the technology? Well with the most up-to-date equipment, naturally.
4. Again I'm not sure what you mean. As to the definition of pollution see 2.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by August

Yet you can still go to any emergency room and get treated, insurance coverage or not, money to pay for it or not, so your fellow citizens are still forced to pick up the tab for your foolishness.

A very valid point. Which also makes me wonder why we need a national healthcare plan. Current events aside, the money trail on this would lead back to the state or the health care institution that you were treated at. It should be well within the state/hospital to expect their money back from you and to pursue legal means to that end.

[Ducimus]

Re prostitutes:

I do not understand why prostitution is illegal. Why is it illegal to sell what is perfectly legal to give away? Sellling is legal, f*cking is legal. Why isn't selling f*cking legal?

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yes, you could, but you would have to ignore the fact that most of the "associated stuff" goes with the illegality. Legalise prostitutes, register and tax them and they get to keep the money they earn, disease is reduced and only the women who actually want to do it are affected. You could even license them and only allow those who passed certification to ply the trade, thus making the state more money as well. The only reason prostitution is illegal is because it offends some people's morals.

Nope not ignoring anything, I was referring to studies done in countries where prostitution is perfectly legal. Crime is still heavily involved, and there a pile of other problems. Lastly most of these women don't choose prostitution because they want to be that, but because they have no choice (and often an expensive drug habit). That is not even touching on the psychological harm done to them (and porn stars for that matter).

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Yet you can still go to any emergency room and get treated, insurance coverage or not, money to pay for it or not, so your fellow citizens are still forced to pick up the tab for your foolishness.

That's also true of doing home roof repairs, home electrical repairs, and slipping in the shower because you didn't have those little plastic thingies on the bathtub floor.

Should they be illegal too? Or helmets and safety straps mandated by law?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Nope not ignoring anything, I was referring to studies done in countries where prostitution is perfectly legal. Crime is still heavily involved, and there a pile of other problems. Lastly most of these women don't choose prostitution because they want to be that, but because they have no choice (and often an expensive drug habit). That is not even touching on the psychological harm done to them (and porn stars for that matter).

But the drugs are illegal too. Psychological harm? Should everything that causes - or may cause - psychological harm be illegal? It's illegal because it offends certain people, and no other reason.

[August]

That's also true of doing home roof repairs, home electrical repairs, and slipping in the shower because you didn't have those little plastic thingies on the bathtub floor.

Well Steve I don't really think that folks tend to do that stuff if they can afford to hire a professional, but what's the economic necessity tied to helmet wearing? I mean if you can afford the scoot you obviously can afford the brain bucket to go with it.

Should they be illegal too? Or helmets and safety straps mandated by law?

I'll concede there may be some merit to your slippery slope argument especially with the nanny state that will come with national health care but I think we're really only arguing degrees of restriction. At some point personal liberty must and should yield to the common good.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Well Steve I don't really think that folks tend to do that stuff if they can afford to hire a professional, but what's the economic necessity tied to helmet wearing? I mean if you can afford the scoot you obviously can afford the brain bucket to go with it.

I always wear a helmet. And I always wear a seatbelt. And I believe that you're an idiot if you don't. But I also firmly believe that neither you nor I have the right to impose those restrictions on anyone else. It's not my place to tell you what you have to do for your own good.

At some point personal liberty must and should yield to the common good.

My philosophy on individual liberty: I have the right to do anything I want, as long as it doesn't infringe anyone else's right to do the same. Any law beyond that is tyrrany.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But the drugs are illegal too. Psychological harm? Should everything that causes - or may cause - psychological harm be illegal? It's illegal because it offends certain people, and no other reason.

Well often in countries where prostitution is fully legal, many drugs are too. Still doesn't change what I stated much.

Let me rephrase to psychological trauma. And yes, stuff that causes psychological trauma to others should be illegal, it is generally as bad, often worse then physical trauma, and can last much much longer.

I don't think you understand the kind of harm (physical, emotional, psychological, etc) prostitution does to the workers, there is a good reason why rates of suicide are considerably higher in the sex trade industry then normal rates. No woman in their right mind willingly chooses prostitution as a career. A few have relatively good lives, the high class call girl types; but even they will build up a whole host of problems in the end.

There are other reasons why its outlawed other then because it offends certain people (including prostitution lowers market values for the neighborhood, increases levels of crime, etc. regardless of if prostitution is legal or not.). I do think though that the law should go after the Johns not the prostitutes though, particularly if they want to cut back on it.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I always wear a helmet. And I always wear a seatbelt. And I believe that you're an idiot if you don't. But I also firmly believe that neither you nor I have the right to impose those restrictions on anyone else. It's not my place to tell you what you have to do for your own good.

A younger me would have agreed with you, but the old me has seen the full effects of not wearing them so I tend to view helmets and belts at least as necessary infringements.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

A younger me would have agreed with you, but the old me has seen the full effects of not wearing them so I tend to view helmets and belts at least as necessary infringements.

I feel naked without a helmet or seatbelt to be honest. I always wear it.

[Onkel Neal]

Pollution, this thread is about pollution. And how the US is #1. And OTH is compelled to beat us over the head with it.

[CaptainHaplo]

Neal - I can answer that.

We are #1 in nuclear waste - though "pollution" is a stretch because our waste gets buried in Yucca Mountain where it won't harm the environment. But I guess one could say that its existance equals pollution.

However the real crime against humanity comes from the fact that our philosophy of self determination, independance and a refusal to embrace global collectivism means our views, ideals and way of life is the largest possible "pollutant" to many people like OTH.