Further Millitary Action Possible?

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Just caught that myself - they hadn't explicitly said this one.

As

And i thought i was seeing visions when your post had disappeared.:rotfl:

[Frame57]

This is where that firebug on the movie "The Stand" starts to chant about "The Big Fire...."

[Sea Demon]

Come on folks. Russia's not going to nuke anybody. Not Poland, not the Ukraine, not Western Europe. It's all talk. They can't. They will gain nothing but their own total and complete annihilation. Doesn't sound like a move worthy of their consideration. Looking seriously at it, I'm sure they're miffed at the missile shield in Poland. But they certainly have other options than nuclear warfare. It's worthy to note that an empty nuclear warfare threat will get them the least results to satisfy their concerns over the shield. Mr. Putin needs to realize that.

[jumpy]

According to a polish chap on R4 yesterday, russia has been invited to inspect all of the missile sites to ensure nothing untoward is being done, on an ongoing basis.
Some russian statements mentioned targeting these proposed sited with nuclear missiles.

As the man said, this in no way shows a polish intent to go to war, indeed polish history is full of invaders, something quoted by a russian source as the reason they (russia) are a bit huffy about the whole missile defence thing... 'cause russia is sooo besieged and have never aggressively annexed land and assets belonging for sovereign nations, oh no, not us... Using that logic you might expect the poles to be more like the russians claim to be.

Also mentioned by the polish guy was how the mask of russian diplomacy and 'partner states' is beginning to slip, revealing good old soviet suspicion and oppression.

More hot air and bombast as usual.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by jumpy

According to a polish chap on R4 yesterday, russia has been invited to inspect all of the missile sites to ensure nothing untoward is being done, on an ongoing basis.

Does Poland understand that even a completely defensive system can be considered a provocation? Does the United States remember it had decided such at least once?

Some russian statements mentioned targeting these proposed sited with nuclear missiles.

As long as they don't launch them just for this, I don't blame them one little bit.

Also mentioned by the polish guy was how the mask of russian diplomacy and 'partner states' is beginning to slip, revealing good old soviet suspicion and oppression.

Fake smile or real smile, when you keep kicking someone who's smiling, don't blame him for dropping it.

[jumpy]

Provocation to whom, exactly? Unless russia has unsavoury designs on foreign nations, why does it have to be concerned about poland? (we all know polands propensity for starting wars of aggression and conquest hehe)

Russia doesn't do itself any favours with its 'grumpy soviet bear' attitude and veiled threats against supposed allies.
On a personal note, I wouldn't swallow such a bleeding heart point of view from my own government, and especially not from a country with a history of conquest and subjugation and brutality like russias. Murdering dissidents in foreign countries and point blank refusing to hand over the prime suspects to the appropriate authorities in that country just goes to show that the 'means and architecture' of oppression are still in attendance, even if they are not publicly acknowleged.

Small wonder then that many nations view the former soviet union with fear and distrust, even today when we're all meant to be 'best friends'

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Fake smile or real smile, when you keep kicking someone who's smiling, don't blame him for dropping it.

Perhaps so, but when that someone has a reputation as a totalitarian nut-job which precedes them through the ages, you'd expect such a 'reformed character' to show a little understanding and willingness to go a little bit further to demonstrate their good intent, instead of falling back into the old ways and habits of oppression and warmongering rhetoric.

[Thomen]

Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by jumpy

Perhaps so, but when that someone has a reputation as a totalitarian nut-job which precedes them through the ages, you'd expect such a 'reformed character' to show a little understanding and willingness to go a little bit further to demonstrate their good intent, instead of falling back into the old ways and habits of oppression and warmongering rhetoric.

Actually, they tried this stuff for 15 or so years. Poland, Czech ... etc reward them by joining NATO. I can see why they are trying something else now.

Originally Posted by Thomen

Not trying to defend Russia's threats, but it does makes some sense, if you look at it from a Russian point of view.

Base line is this: The Missile defense system basically nullifies the MAD, Mutual Agreed Destruction, that was the status quo during the cold war. Why? Because it leaves Russia and its allies (if there are some) defenseless against first strikes, and decreases their ability to strike back, if an attack should ever come out of the west. And that is, imho what all this noise is about. They see the west developing technology that would make it possible to strike with impunity.

Such considerations were what was behind the ABM Treaty and also behind the US's objection to Cyprus gaining S-300s. Of course, when it comes to Russia ... all such calcs went out the window.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

What Russia doesn't consider is that we already have significant Early Warning capabilities with NORAD radars in North America and redundant space based systems.

NORAD radars in North America, thanks to line of sight, can only see missiles as they rise very high, or bombers as they approach. Space based surveillance can spot ICBM flashes as they launch. Neither is comparable to what a high capability radar close to the Russian border can see.

Mr. Putin, we can already see well inside your country. But if Russia is not hostile, is peaceful, and doesn't intend to conduct a nuclear first strike.......what are they worried about?

They are worried about how reducing their options in that direction, and how that affects the balance of power.

And before you laugh, I say again, the US has actually accepted and even promoted this viewpoint with Cyprus, and that's b/w nominal NATO allies.