Afghan surge was never meant for victory.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

What is your solution to the global rise of Islam?

IDKFA

[antikristuseke]

IDDQD

[Happy Times]

The plan was to speed the Taliban in their ongoing decline and prevent al-qaida stepping into the gap made by their fall by using the tribes and not upsetting too many locals.

How does that take out the Taliban support and supply in Pakistan? We shouldnt look at the borders in Asia and Africa but the ethnic and religious boundaries.

What global rise?
You swallow too much hype, its basicly the same small groups of pricks scattered round the world shouting nonsense very loudly like they have for hundreds of years while the vast majority of muslims just get on with their lives.

Yes, we have relatively small groups of militants but in every muslim country Islamic parties are big and on their way to power.
You cant possibly deny this?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

IDDQD

Only if things get hairy.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

IDDQD

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Yes, we have relatively small groups of militants but in every muslim country Islamic parties are big and on their way to power.
You cant possibly deny this?

And militarily they are about as much of a threat to the west as a mosquito is likely to kill you due to blood loss.
There will be terror attacks in the future, but wide scale military deployment does not really hinder that. Those terror organizations are not centralized, they more than likely operate on a cell principle, which makes them difficult to infiltrate and eliminate, even if that happens a cell is always expendable. If you know the right people it is easy to get weapons and even explosives almost anywhere so they don't have a logistics chain to worry about, all they need is money.
Now given the ruthless nature of the people involved rising money via methods that are frowned upon my more civilized folk is not a problem and even that is more than likely run on a cell principle.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

And militarily they are about as much of a threat to the west as a mosquito is likely to kill you due to blood loss.
There will be terror attacks in the future, but wide scale military deployment does not really hinder that. Those terror organizations are not centralized, they more than likely operate on a cell principle, which makes them difficult to infiltrate and eliminate, even if that happens a cell is always expendable. If you know the right people it is easy to get weapons and even explosives almost anywhere so they don't have a logistics chain to worry about, all they need is money.
Now given the ruthless nature of the people involved rising money via methods that are frowned upon my more civilized folk is not a problem and even that is more than likely run on a cell principle.

Your solutions to not live under threat of terror?

[antikristuseke]

Statistically the likelyhood of being killed in a terror attack is so low I don't pay any attention to it. Also there are clandestine intelligence organizations that are combating that threat at all times, if anything those need more resources to provide additional security. If the enemy does not fight out in the open we need to adapt our tactics to theirs to combat them. You cant win an asymetric threat with a show of force.
As to those militant muslims who live in the west already, each generation they bring out is less and less likely to adopt extremist views unless they themselves are targets of discrimination due to their heritage and will, sooner or later, assimilate to a large degree. Again, not a quick fix, nor a painless one, but I dont see us having any other options, as long as the west plays the part of the bully we are feeding the extremists all the ammo they need to recruit more.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Statistically the likelyhood of being killed in a terror attack is so low I don't pay any attention to it. Also there are clandestine intelligence organizations that are combating that threat at all times, if anything those need more resources to provide additional security. If the enemy does not fight out in the open we need to adapt our tactics to theirs to combat them. You cant win an asymetric threat with a show of force.
As to those militant muslims who live in the west already, each generation they bring out is less and less likely to adopt extremist views unless they themselves are targets of discrimination due to their heritage and will, sooner or later, assimilate to a large degree. Again, not a quick fix, nor a painless one, but I dont see us having any other options, as long as the west plays the part of the bully we are feeding the extremists all the ammo they need to recruit more.

I guessed you would compare it to getting hit by a car or something.

Rest of your model is wishful thinking, you admit to that?
There is nothing even to support ýour theory but lot of information on the contrary.
Or is it that you dont rather want to think about it and take an fatalictic attitude, nothing really matters in this world?

[antikristuseke]

It is far, far less likely than a car accident.

And no, it is not purely wishful thinking, whenever you look at immigrants to an established population, the more generations that pass, the more they change to fit their surroundings. The more the children of those extremists are exposed to the actual culture the more it changes them and their children etc. In the end empires nor countries are permanent in the long run, there have been rises and falls of both. That being said, the core values laid down in the constitution of Estonia are worth fighting and dieing for in my book, but since the weather and social welfare here suck, we don't get many immigrants.

As to my view on life, yes I am fatalistic, but I do have a set of principles, though they are not standard and I am not going to discuss them in detail here. As for nothing mattering, that really depends on your perspective, humans are so plentiful and short lived that a single life usually is meaningless to the whole, but that individual is a sentient being with needs and desires which matter to him/her and in most cases people they love and care about. To him/her those things and people matter, there might even bee some principles that matter to em. I guess I have it easier in that department as I don't form strong connections to people, there are a few id be willing to kill and die for, but that number is less than 10 and I could probably sever those connections without suffering too much for it. But what I won't do is compromise my principles.

How does that take out the Taliban support and supply in Pakistan?

The idea was to take them out of the only place where they held power which was the place where al-qaida was based.
Have you forgoten what the idea of the war was?
It looks like you also forgot that their support and supply base was reinforced by the ballsups.

Yes, we have relatively small groups of militants but in every muslim country Islamic parties are big and on their way to power.

Really?

You cant possibly deny this?

of course I can, because it simply isn't true.

Your solutions to not live under threat of terror?

Just live.
If you want to walk in fear of some insignificant bogeyman then that is your problem.

[Happy Times]

And no, it is not purely wishful thinking, whenever you look at immigrants to an established population, the more generations that pass, the more they change to fit their surroundings. The more the children of those extremists are exposed to the actual culture the more it changes them and their children etc.

The extremists are often second or third generation, how many generations are you talking about and willing to wait?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Not true, empirical statistics prove that with Muslims migration in several European countries and especially Germany, it is exactly the other way around. The second generation of Turks over here is more distant
to Germany, than the first, and is more conservative. The third generation is more radicalised and anti-German and is much more fixiated on Islam (and Turkiush ultra-nationalism), than the second and first ever were. The same has been observed in Holland, England, France and Sweden.

With traditional European immigrants to America, it was different. The first generation did not expect much from going to Aemrcia, and worked for the second generation having a better fate. They adapted, they integrated. But Muslim migrants very, very often do not do like this, we see it in all European countries going wrong. And considering the supremacist claim by Islam of cultural superiority and the need to take over and rule all the world, this is in a way just a consistent thing.

Muslim migrants do not compare to non-Muslim migrants, and they behave completely different in another culture, than non-Muslim migrants do. Most adaptive and willing to learn, also forming the by far most intelligent group of foreign students, are Asiens in general, and the Chinese in special. Koreans, Vietnamese, Japanese and Chiense hardly, if ever, give us any integration-related troubles. In several countries, Chinese even outsmart the local native population in IQ scores - Canada and Germany being amongst these.

Canada is probably the last of the Western countries from where we get increasing reports that over there Muslim migrants also pose immense stress on the native local culture and society - like they already do in Europe.

Malmö is not just in Sweden anymore.

[antikristuseke]

10 if that is what it take,s what other option is there, if they are citizens you can't extradite them, now can you?

[Happy Times]

The idea was to take them out of the only place where they held power which was the place where al-qaida was based.
Have you forgoten what the idea of the war was?
It looks like you also forgot that their support and supply base was reinforced by the ballsups.

You cant just take Taliban out of Afganistan and leave it in Pakistan and think it wont come back.
Al Qaida will march back in to Kabul with Taliban when the coalition leaves, that is a victory the Islamists will use worldwide.

Really?
of course I can, because it simply isn't true.

So where are the Islamists not in power or a strong growing faction?
Im happy if you know some?