What is IV missing...

[AVGWarhawk]

Interact with your crew? Play cribbage What interaction with the crew other than clicking his pixel head, said head shaking yes or no then make a valve turn with a pixel hand.

[FIREWALL]

I think from looking at the pics that GWX4 is going to grant a few wishes.

[AVGWarhawk]

As far as I know the Uboats in SH4 have the capts and sonar quarters. I suspect the original poster was refering to the fleetboats not having these quarters to visit?

[Rockin Robbins]

• Equipment malfunctions, especially electronics! 100% reliability can't be called simulation!
• Digital compass course under compass instead of rudder position!
• Steering by heading not direction of movement, both in forward and reverse.
• Map positional uncertainty, weighted by distance, target height and observing conditions for visual targets.
• Real ONI recognition manual not containing all targets in the game and as ambiguous as the real one
• Stadimeter adjustments: you should have to input the height of the deck, cabin top, funnel or mast you want to measure into the stadimeter and then take the sighting, just like the real sub. ONI manual should contain multiple height measurements for each target.
• Digital range readout on the radar
• Direct TDC input from radar and sonar for range and bearing
• Realistic diving behavior, varied by speed of submarine.
• Direct TDC to periscope connection as the real subs had. American subs COULD do Fast-90. SH4 ones cannot.
• Player control of ballast system. Just once I'd love to issue the command "Flood negative to the mark." Require trim dives to calibrate negative and incorporate specific gravity changes in the water to penalize not doing trim calibration dives.
• Digital input of depth and heading orders.

Yeah, there's more, but that's enough to make a game that's much better than we have.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

• Equipment malfunctions, especially electronics! 100% reliability can't be called simulation!
• Digital compass course under compass instead of rudder position!
• Steering by heading not direction of movement, both in forward and reverse.
• Map positional uncertainty, weighted by distance, target height and observing conditions for visual targets.
• Real ONI recognition manual not containing all targets in the game and as ambiguous as the real one
• Stadimeter adjustments: you should have to input the height of the deck, cabin top, funnel or mast you want to measure into the stadimeter and then take the sighting, just like the real sub. ONI manual should contain multiple height measurements for each target.
• Digital range readout on the radar
• Direct TDC input from radar and sonar for range and bearing
• Realistic diving behavior, varied by speed of submarine.
• Direct TDC to periscope connection as the real subs had. American subs COULD do Fast-90. SH4 ones cannot.
• Player control of ballast system. Just once I'd love to issue the command "Flood negative to the mark." Require trim dives to calibrate negative and incorporate specific gravity changes in the water to penalize not doing trim calibration dives.
• Digital input of depth and heading orders.

Yeah, there's more, but that's enough to make a game that's much better than we have.

Now were talking!

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

• Stadimeter adjustments: you should have to input the height of the deck, cabin top, funnel or mast you want to measure into the stadimeter and then take the sighting, just like the real sub. ONI manual should contain multiple height measurements for each target.
  
• Player control of ballast system. Just once I'd love to issue the command "Flood negative to the mark." Require trim dives to calibrate negative and incorporate specific gravity changes in the water to penalize not doing trim calibration dives.
  

Those two things would add so much to the game experience.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Interact with your crew? Play cribbage What interaction with the crew other than clicking his pixel head, said head shaking yes or no then make a valve turn with a pixel hand.

Plenty of games offer interaction with NPCs. It's hard for me to consider anything a command simulation when it completely ignores the influence the skipper can have on his crew. Consider a scenario where a crew member is wounded and low on morale. Wouldn't it be interesting to walk through your boat, notice shaky crew behavior, and be able to address it as a real skipper would?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Plenty of games offer interaction with NPCs. It's hard for me to consider anything a command simulation when it completely ignores the influence the skipper can have on his crew. Consider a scenario where a crew member is wounded and low on morale. Wouldn't it be interesting to walk through your boat, notice shaky crew behavior, and be able to address it as a real skipper would?

To be honest, no. Crew interaction would be the last on my list considering the other aspects of the game that were left out (See RR's list above). To me it is a simulation of tactics and the weapons of the time. Not a game to take care of shaking pixel people. I'm completely satisfied with what SH4 has concerning a crewman on the crew screen interface with a shade of pink is enough for me to realize he is ill'in. So he goes to the medic. Done deal. I do not want to spend my time starting the conversation with, "Look son.....". Tracking, tactics and sinking ships That is what it is about for me. If you want to influence your crew...avoid depth charges and attacking aircraft! They will love you for it.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

To be honest, no. Crew interaction would be the last on my list considering the other aspects of the game that were left out (See RR's list above). To me it is a simulation of tactics and the weapons of the time. Not a game to take care of shaking pixel people. I'm completely satisfied with what SH4 has concerning a crewman on the crew screen interface with a shade of pink is enough for me to realize he is ill'in. So he goes to the medic. Done deal. I do not want to spend my time starting the conversation with, "Look son.....". Tracking, tactics and sinking ships That is what it is about for me. If you want to influence your crew...avoid depth charges and attacking aircraft! They will love you for it.

We'll have to file this under to each his own.

However, throughout history the best commanders were those that knew how to handle their human assets. I'd like to see the sub simulation (or any real military simulation) be a complete one, including my idea and the list of RRs improvements. To be honest with you, I find "human" breakdowns far more intriguing than mechanical ones. Combining the management of both would be awesome.

As far as "pixel people" goes, it's really no less or more real than "pixel ships".

[Rockin Robbins]

The problem with managing people is that individuals are involved. Motivating Ensign Jack might be best done with a hand on the shoulder and encouraging, while Machinist Bill needs a swift kick in the buttocks. A simulation trying to model this would be unacceptably arbitrary and become a cruel and unplayable parody of itself, sort of like sim city.

However fixing my list is a matter of objective measurement which can be handled with agreement as to whether the job was successfully accomplished or not. Of course I'm not limiting possible improvements to my list and I think crew interactions could be improved, but it would be with crew acting "by the book" and procedures being followed verbally as well as in deed. You might hit the range button on the stadimeter and a voice would state "range, mark!"

But sitting down with a low morale crew member and talking with him about his girl who sent him a dear John letter isn't my idea of a war game. I'd be very afraid of turning submarine warfare into playing Barbie and Ken.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The problem with managing people is that individuals are involved. Motivating Ensign Jack might be best done with a hand on the shoulder and encouraging, while Machinist Bill needs a swift kick in the buttocks. A simulation trying to model this would be unacceptably arbitrary and become a cruel and unplayable parody of itself, sort of like sim city.

However fixing my list is a matter of objective measurement which can be handled with agreement as to whether the job was successfully accomplished or not. Of course I'm not limiting possible improvements to my list and I think crew interactions could be improved, but it would be with crew acting "by the book" and procedures being followed verbally as well as in deed. You might hit the range button on the stadimeter and a voice would state "range, mark!"

But sitting down with a low morale crew member and talking with him about his girl who sent him a dear John letter isn't my idea of a war game. I'd be very afraid of turning submarine warfare into playing Barbie and Ken.

I'm not really talking about in depth conversations here... I'm talking about personalities.

For example, what made, say, Das Boot great was the tension in the characters. Add being able to actually experience that would be awesome.

Like I said, though - to each his own.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Aramike

I'm not really talking about in depth conversations here... I'm talking about personalities.

For example, what made, say, Das Boot great was the tension in the characters. Add being able to actually experience that would be awesome.

Like I said, though - to each his own.

Well, I do not know how one could achieve that type of tension in a game. Well, at least not in today's games. Perhaps down the road.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Aramike

For example, what made, say, Das Boot great was the tension in the characters. Add being able to actually experience that would be awesome.

Nooooooooooooo! No hokey "Das Boot Experience" in fleet boats. I can't stand Mr Sniveler, whose function is to suffer ignobly throughout the movie, while being useless for anything aboard the boat. I can't stand that they are so focused on showing the crushing of spirits during a depth charge attack, they don't bother to do any evasive maneuvering.

I can't stand the phony procedure just so they can stupidly stick a periscope out of the water in the face of a charging DD for cinematic effect! Idiots! You don't raise the scope until the sonar man tells you everything happening around you. You would already know the bearing of the DD and the fact that he was charging quickly. Frankly you would be evading and not mucking with the useless periscope. The fake surprise bit turns my stomach.

There's some neat footage in Das Boot. The sub looks great. The bar scene is a lot of fun. The people are just a travesty. It's better than Hollywood. That and a dollar will make a down payment on a cup of coffee. Time is overdue for someone to make a good submarine movie. That ain't it.

You can't read the book without wondering what could have been.

[Historic]

Alot has been said about the sub but not much about the sea you play in so here my bit

Better weather fog banks driving rain so on sea weed oil on water things that add to making you feel your at sea(or use a mister with salt water in and a fan :rotfl
More detailed vessels people moving about and reacting to things happening (not just standing holding head lolz
Damage models made to fit the damage thats has happened fire marks bullets holes twisted metal
How the ships sink and move and react the sea state really needs work (no 0-33 knots in 2secs)
Sub get very dirty at sea ones in combat more so it would be great if that could be shown
Crew alway look the same no matter what happening state changes how crew look ie happy scared
Smoke needs to look and behave all the same (ie high wind fire smoke in sh4 moves fast but stack smoke remains the same )
Sub damage that is fixed at sea should still show that it has been damage till repairs at a port ie sea fixs are quick fixs so painting would not happen
Sound use different types of sound for same thing ie not the same sound played over and over again for dive dive dive
also on sound now this would be great but I feel a bit too costly to add to a game Voice command ie you say what you want to happen like make dive to 50ft make ready torp 1 so on now that would be fun
thought sidewinder game voice can be set up to work with sh4 to do that as I use it my voice just acts like pressing keys only thing it cant do is change heading or any tmo stuff. tho it drives my wife mad when I shout fire the torp god dam it.

[Platapus]

Since I am relatively new to SH4, does SH4 accurately model the sounds in the hydrophone to the point you can calculate rpm?

If not, that is what I would like to see. Manning the hydrophone station is something I could really get into.