“You can’t turn a tiger into a kitten by stroking it.”

[Skybird]

So damn true that it hurts. A recommended read!

http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...nds/#more-3149

It is just not true, historically speaking, that ‘peace movements’ lead to peace or, for that matter, support policies that will bring peace. More often than not, the opposite is true.

[NeonSamurai]

Ah good ol blind uncritical idealism, always ever popular at the Universities. I really have to shake my head in dismay at them so often. Yet one of the big goals in University is to teach critical thought, oh the irony.

I like peace as much as the next person, and prefer not to have to kill. But I am not so foolish as to think that placating an enemy will make them my friend. Sometimes there is no choice. I do though think the Iraq war was a big mistake. Maybe Bush got Iran and Iraq mixed up

[Oberon]

It must be nice to be so idealistic, to see the world in such soft tones, to be able to completely miss all the crap that there is out there.
Alas, I am a realist.

[Betonov]

I second that, or should I say fourth that (OK, bad joke)
I wonder how people become such idealist. Dont they ever go out into the world, see how it works. Ponder about actions and reactions.

I guess Teddy Roosevelt knew, avoid war if possible, but kick some behinds if need arises. The developed world is getting soft while the developing world gets tough. The best thing would be is to develop the developing world so they get even softer, but that wont happen in our lifetimes. So the best thing is to deter everyone from attacking by being more than ready to fight. Maybe assasinate some dictators to keep most of them in line. Kirgizia could use some policing right now.

In my country there is actually a petition to disband the entire army. I would signid it IF the slovenian army was the last in the world. Plus, with a 10% unemployment rate (100 000 people) would be a bad idea to put another 5000 on that statistic

[Oberon]

These days it's more Speak very softly and carry a bunch of flowers*

*Flowers must be of plastic variety and wielded in a manner that is non offensive to the recipient.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Oberon

These days it's more Speak very softly and carry a bunch of flowers*

*Flowers must be of plastic variety and wielded in a manner that is non offensive to the recipient.

plastic flowers?!? they are to be made out of biodegradable cloth and bits of fluff. Think of the environment man!

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

plastic flowers?!? they are to be made out of biodegradable cloth and bits of fluff. Think of the environment man!

Damn! Damn! Well, that's me fined then

[August]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

plastic flowers?!? they are to be made out of biodegradable cloth and bits of fluff. Think of the environment man!

Oh sure, wrapped around a steel bar maybe...

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Oh sure, wrapped around a steel bar maybe...

The Steel bar must conform to Health and Safety Regulations or someone might get hurt!
Furthermore it must not be held in an aggressive manner lest someone get offended!

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Betonov

In my country there is actually a petition to disband the entire army. I would signid it IF the slovenian army was the last in the world. Plus, with a 10% unemployment rate (100 000 people) would be a bad idea to put another 5000 on that statistic

Same here. The service time for draftees has just been reduced to six month which means that the "soldiers" can't do much more than clean their gun and the basics of operating more complicated equipment.
But most people here take it for absolutely granted that the world is peaceful and that we don't need armed forces since there is a world full of friends around us.

There is a saying here which goes: The price for peace is eternal watchfulness.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Sometimes there is no choice.

Exactly sometimes the error needs to be worked out and it lies with the other person(party) and no amount of EMPATHY, REASONING or COMPASSION could sort the problem and would probably even mess things up further for the worse.

The problem with pacifist or peace activist is that they try to relate to the enemy with empathy but the problem with empathy is sometimes the other party is not really comparable to you.

The psychology of people in power or absolute power or corrupt in power are totally different than the psychology of an average people.
Like it or not countries are governed not by its people but by a select individuals who hold power and able to wield it to influence the people either by approval or coercion and often these people are not common people, psychologically speaking.

But it is easy for us and the writer of the article to talk with the benefit of HINDSIGHT.

[Betonov]

Schroeder, germany still has draftees ?? I thought it was 100% profesional soldiers. Interesting

And yes, 6 months will get them to do 50 pushups and learn to shine their boots, not much combat training. Six months is also in Slovenia for a volunteer reservist

[Tchocky]

As far as I know it's a choice between the armed forces and the civil service. A freind of mine spent his service in the Luftwaffe glider corps, doing what he loves

[Skybird]

the draft is currently being fought over, although nobody wants to admit it. Some conservatives want to crucify themselves ove rit, talking idealistic BS aout how much it brings together different mentalities of different regions of Germany - those who served in the BW will tell you that it is what I just said: idealistic BS that is completely disconnected from reality. Due to the need to cut spendings, the defence minister wants to cut - or already has - the drfat time from 9 to 6 months. But this is just a preparatory step to skip drafting alltogether.

I see it happening in the forseeable future - some years.

we have this conceopt of thinking of soldiers not as warriors, but "citizens in uniform". that'S all nice and well, but seriously hampers the performing and realistic understanding of military duties and war-related acticities, like you can see in Germany'S schizophrenic perspective of how Afghnbaistan is not a war. It is an effort to form a military that never again will become the ruler of Germany, but obediently fits into the framework of a civil, pacifistic society.

what got lost over this attempt is that much of the world is neither a cicil nor a pacifistic place. I prefer to have a military spirit sharp like a laser sword - but having a poltical control over it that shows maximum restaint before letting lose this military. what he have instead since the fall of the wall is a military tame and defining itself as a socially engaged disaster relief organisation that is armed for self protection, and a political class having send this military on an inflational number of "peaceful" missions some of which turned out to be extremely bad surprises, or being more symbolic and uselss than helpful in achieving militarily defined goals.

Warriors are only needed in war, and to protect freedom by showing readiness to defend it. Better to have them and not needing them, than to need them but not having them. Warriors are no social aid workers. The Germans, and also some Europeans, need to learn that.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

As far as I know it's a choice between the armed forces and the civil service. A freind of mine spent his service in the Luftwaffe glider corps, doing what he loves

That is correct. One can choose between civil service and the military. Though a lot of young men don't have to do either. There aren't nearly enough jobs for them in both the civil or the military sector (which comes if the military is cut down in size constantly every few years). So all in all it's a pretty unjust system right now.