SUBSIM: Silent Hunter 5 review (17/03/10) - Page 6

ichso · 03-18-10, 07:46 AM

Very good review, Neal. This is why I read subsim instead of Gamespot (or many others) when it comes to naval games

One could make a list of items that could be expected in a game with Silent Hunter in the title, and adding a few desired aspects myself it would turn out like this:

full boat access
RPG elements
dynamic campaign
remaining time periods of the era
remaining sub types
wolfpacks
believable boat handling
more complex/believable navigation

O.k., so far they focused on adding points 1-3. As you reviewed it, they don't seem to be finished at all. At least points 1 and 2 don't. The crew just standing around should be upgraded with the necessary animations and scripts to control those animations.
RPG elements need to be layed out in a satisfying way, I think it is very easy to just throw in some cheesy cliches - just as they did for now. But that is certainly not the end of the RPG-element, it's rather the beginning.

Points 4,5 I somewhat assume to be worked on in form of an addon. As the dynamic campaign seems to appear all nice any well designed (if I didn't miss anything here) it takes quite a lot of effort to not only introduce the '44-'45 era and more U-boat types, but to also bring it to the same level.

That is what I fear. The game seems to be very unfinished in many aspects. I don't believe we will see any of the last three points on the list any time soon because it takes so much effort to work on the aspects in 1-5.
Especially, now that they _introduced_ points 1 and 2, they now need to _make something out of it_. From all the descriptions it seems that those two aspects are mere stublets for new features and not really fully flegded features themselves.

Points 7 and 8 I added on my behalf. When I play a submarine simulation, I don't go that much for a 'Das Boot'-experience (which is nice), but I would more like to see the actual mechanics of a submarine in full effect, and that includes a more sophisticated approach to navigation - including a non-flat map, needed tools, scripts so that the navigator can deal with this partly. Everything would be better then just zipping around by waypoints with an realtime-100%-true position marker of your sub on the map (well, teleporting wouldn't, but still).

If UBI is really going for 1. an addon and 2. for a game called
'Silent Hunter VI'
then I even more effort would go into updated graphics and such.
So, maybe no wolfpacks again, just the highly needed improvements on the newest features to the series. Or _if_ they would go for wolfpacks, then maybe we would see even more halfbaked features in future versions of the game.

So far, thanks for the insights into the game @all.

Regards, i.

EDIT: One thing I might add is this: the drops-on-the-screen effect looks very nice, but seems often to be very misplaced. I mean if the captain is standing on the brigde (not wearing glasses) where are these drops supposed to be dropping onto ? This effect should really be limited to Binocular- UZO- and Peri-views.
Even inside the boat this effect takes place

R1fl3M4n · 03-18-10, 07:57 AM

SH5 is a very nice game ! i enjoy every minute of it

i don`t think that UBISOFT deserves ` all the crap from kids that like to whine about the game....

Iron Budokan · 03-18-10, 08:53 AM

Thank you for the review.

The Enigma · 03-18-10, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1fl3M4n

i don`t think that UBISOFT deserves ` all the crap from kids that like to whine about the game....

Thank you for the name calling

ichso · 03-18-10, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1fl3M4n

i don`t think that UBISOFT deserves ` all the crap from kids that like to whine about the game....

It's not that big a deal.
Worse than the little kids whining about the game are the little kids whining about the little kids whining about the game, anyway

Faamecanic · 03-18-10, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1fl3M4n

SH5 is a very nice game ! i enjoy every minute of it

i don`t think that UBISOFT deserves ` all the crap from kids that like to whine about the game....

Considering Im turning 40 next month, and havent been able to play SH5 either weekend I have been off.... I consider you name calling to be childish

Also add the fact that the review was fairly negative and that even Neil suggested NOT BUYING until patched, and that A LOT of veteran subsim members (myself included I think) who have supported the devs from SH3 to present are voicing great disatisfaction this time around.

Onkel Neal · 03-18-10, 10:58 AM

Where are you located? I'm in Houston, I have been playing SH5 3~6 hours a day for three weeks, with only one period of about 4 hours where the game could not connect. Maybe this is a localized problem?

McBeck · 03-18-10, 11:26 AM

Great review rommie

Your most comprehensive I have read so far. I really got the feeling that you had played the game alot to com to your conclusions.

03-18-10, 12:23 PM

Fantastic review Neal.
I hope that the devs do support it with patches and an expansion few years from now.
But as with most things nowadays, it all comes down to the money.
If they don't support it it will be the last ubisoft game I ever buy.
With the right care and attention it truly could be one amazing game and one that will stay on my HDD for a long time.
The balls in your court ubisoft.
Has anyone heard if they are working on a patch?

PL_Andrev · 03-18-10, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

A couple years back I was asked what I thought was the next step for subsims, I said, "compelling radio traffic, complex objectives like shadowing convoys, genuine wolfpack activity, more role-playing with the crew, and full boat access".
SH5 does not deliver on any of these metrics, with the exception of opening up the whole U-boat to the player.

100% right...
Neal, this only two sentences are full SH5 review.
Thanks for your great work.

Oscarkeeper · 03-18-10, 04:05 PM

Thanks for the excellent and honest review.

Scoochy · 03-18-10, 04:21 PM

Fantastic and honest review, non-biased and sticks to the facts. If it seems the review has a negative slant to it, I think that’s due to the fact that there are more negatives this time around which by far outweigh the positives.

Sequels, by nature, should take a franchise forward. Capitalizing on what has succeeded, improve what has not, and introduce new creativity and innovation to the overall experience. SH5 gets this right in 2 areas, graphics and free roaming sub interior.

The other items that were added or changed (Crew Management, GUI, and Dynamic Campaign as a few examples) take this franchise back a step, or are not even functional. Some of these are not even new to the series, just changed from previous renditions and should be functional from the start. If there new innovations that do not work properly, I might understand, but to break something that worked fine in previous releases does not advance a product.

Your recognition of Ubi supporting Mods was spot on and I think this is the best decision they have made in the franchise. They understand the importance of being Mod friendly as it helps them in correcting issues, as well as extends the life and marketability of the product. There are people out there, me being one, that would not have touched this iteration if it weren’t for the fact that modders could come in and correct some issues and ad new content.

I think Ubi realizes that they can fund the core product and get 80 percent of it complete, and let the modding community make up the difference. This saves Ubi some cash which can be invested in other parts of the software (Graphics Engine, DRM J) and lets the modding community do the research and contribute its expertise. The expense to software developers and publishers would grow exponentially if it were not for the modding community. I for one do not see this as doing their work for them, more as the opportunity to shape a product and contribute towards that product.

*

Enough rambling. Great Review.

*

Stryck_9 · 03-18-10, 05:04 PM

Thanks for this review Neal, I am one of those on the fence , I would like to add this to my collection of games but the current shortcomings have kept me from doing so. After reading your review I have decided to try to hold off on this game despite all the work done by the modding community until UBI has patched it up a bit. I will continue to read these forums and follow the saga of SH5

Konovalov · 03-18-10, 05:28 PM

Firstly I have been waiting for this review for a while. Quite frankly I wasn't going to read a review from some crummy gaming site that wouldn't know what a subsim was. So a big thanks to Neal for a proper comprehensive review and not some 5 second skim of the surface.

Neals conclusion sums it up for me. I'm afraid that if Ubisoft don't provide some serious after release support for this title in the form of patches in what appears a rush to release 3/4 finished sim then I'm a no go on this and I will go back to SHIII. Sure it might not have the sexy eye candy of SHV but for me I could live with that.

SHV could be such a great sim. It appears to have so much potential but only time will tell if Ubisoft pull their finger out and turn things around for the better. I'm holding off laying down my cash this time.

DedEye · 03-18-10, 06:24 PM

Sums up my experience really well.

She's a bit of a mixed bag; there's some great stuff here but a lot of not-so-great too.

03-18-10, 07:46 AM	#76
ichso Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Germany's oldest city alive Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	Very good review, Neal. This is why I read subsim instead of Gamespot (or many others) when it comes to naval games One could make a list of items that could be expected in a game with Silent Hunter in the title, and adding a few desired aspects myself it would turn out like this: full boat access RPG elements dynamic campaign remaining time periods of the era remaining sub types wolfpacks believable boat handling more complex/believable navigation O.k., so far they focused on adding points 1-3. As you reviewed it, they don't seem to be finished at all. At least points 1 and 2 don't. The crew just standing around should be upgraded with the necessary animations and scripts to control those animations. RPG elements need to be layed out in a satisfying way, I think it is very easy to just throw in some cheesy cliches - just as they did for now. But that is certainly not the end of the RPG-element, it's rather the beginning. Points 4,5 I somewhat assume to be worked on in form of an addon. As the dynamic campaign seems to appear all nice any well designed (if I didn't miss anything here) it takes quite a lot of effort to not only introduce the '44-'45 era and more U-boat types, but to also bring it to the same level. That is what I fear. The game seems to be very unfinished in many aspects. I don't believe we will see any of the last three points on the list any time soon because it takes so much effort to work on the aspects in 1-5. Especially, now that they _introduced_ points 1 and 2, they now need to _make something out of it_. From all the descriptions it seems that those two aspects are mere stublets for new features and not really fully flegded features themselves. Points 7 and 8 I added on my behalf. When I play a submarine simulation, I don't go that much for a 'Das Boot'-experience (which is nice), but I would more like to see the actual mechanics of a submarine in full effect, and that includes a more sophisticated approach to navigation - including a non-flat map, needed tools, scripts so that the navigator can deal with this partly. Everything would be better then just zipping around by waypoints with an realtime-100%-true position marker of your sub on the map (well, teleporting wouldn't, but still). If UBI is really going for 1. an addon and 2. for a game called 'Silent Hunter VI' then I even more effort would go into updated graphics and such. So, maybe no wolfpacks again, just the highly needed improvements on the newest features to the series. Or _if_ they would go for wolfpacks, then maybe we would see even more halfbaked features in future versions of the game. So far, thanks for the insights into the game @all. Regards, i. EDIT: One thing I might add is this: the drops-on-the-screen effect looks very nice, but seems often to be very misplaced. I mean if the captain is standing on the brigde (not wearing glasses) where are these drops supposed to be dropping onto ? This effect should really be limited to Binocular- UZO- and Peri-views. Even inside the boat this effect takes place __________________ My Subskins: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164169 Last edited by ichso; 03-18-10 at 08:02 AM.

03-18-10, 07:57 AM	#77
R1fl3M4n Gunner Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Romania , Bucharest Posts: 91 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	SH5 is a very nice game ! i enjoy every minute of it i don`t think that UBISOFT deserves ` all the crap from kids that like to whine about the game.... __________________ ----------------------- The Merchant season is open!

03-18-10, 08:53 AM	#78
Iron Budokan Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,778 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Thank you for the review. __________________ "You will take on England wherever you find her ships, and you will break her power at sea." --Iron Coffins, Herbert A. Werner http://kennethmarkhoover.com

03-18-10, 10:58 AM	#82
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Where are you located? I'm in Houston, I have been playing SH5 3~6 hours a day for three weeks, with only one period of about 4 hours where the game could not connect. Maybe this is a localized problem? __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

03-18-10, 11:26 AM	#83
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Great review rommie Your most comprehensive I have read so far. I really got the feeling that you had played the game alot to com to your conclusions. __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website

03-18-10, 12:23 PM	#84
Barso Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Fantastic review Neal. I hope that the devs do support it with patches and an expansion few years from now. But as with most things nowadays, it all comes down to the money. If they don't support it it will be the last ubisoft game I ever buy. With the right care and attention it truly could be one amazing game and one that will stay on my HDD for a long time. The balls in your court ubisoft. Has anyone heard if they are working on a patch?

03-18-10, 04:05 PM	#86
Oscarkeeper Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 13 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the excellent and honest review.

03-18-10, 04:21 PM	#87
Scoochy Sparky Join Date: May 2005 Location: San diego Ca. Posts: 150 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Fantastic and honest review, non-biased and sticks to the facts. If it seems the review has a negative slant to it, I think that’s due to the fact that there are more negatives this time around which by far outweigh the positives. Sequels, by nature, should take a franchise forward. Capitalizing on what has succeeded, improve what has not, and introduce new creativity and innovation to the overall experience. SH5 gets this right in 2 areas, graphics and free roaming sub interior. The other items that were added or changed (Crew Management, GUI, and Dynamic Campaign as a few examples) take this franchise back a step, or are not even functional. Some of these are not even new to the series, just changed from previous renditions and should be functional from the start. If there new innovations that do not work properly, I might understand, but to break something that worked fine in previous releases does not advance a product. Your recognition of Ubi supporting Mods was spot on and I think this is the best decision they have made in the franchise. They understand the importance of being Mod friendly as it helps them in correcting issues, as well as extends the life and marketability of the product. There are people out there, me being one, that would not have touched this iteration if it weren’t for the fact that modders could come in and correct some issues and ad new content. I think Ubi realizes that they can fund the core product and get 80 percent of it complete, and let the modding community make up the difference. This saves Ubi some cash which can be invested in other parts of the software (Graphics Engine, DRM J) and lets the modding community do the research and contribute its expertise. The expense to software developers and publishers would grow exponentially if it were not for the modding community. I for one do not see this as doing their work for them, more as the opportunity to shape a product and contribute towards that product. * Enough rambling. Great Review. *

03-18-10, 05:04 PM	#88
Stryck_9 Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 14 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	Thanks for this review Neal, I am one of those on the fence , I would like to add this to my collection of games but the current shortcomings have kept me from doing so. After reading your review I have decided to try to hold off on this game despite all the work done by the modding community until UBI has patched it up a bit. I will continue to read these forums and follow the saga of SH5 __________________

03-18-10, 05:28 PM	#89
Konovalov Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: High Wycombe, Bucks, UK Posts: 2,811 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Firstly I have been waiting for this review for a while. Quite frankly I wasn't going to read a review from some crummy gaming site that wouldn't know what a subsim was. So a big thanks to Neal for a proper comprehensive review and not some 5 second skim of the surface. Neals conclusion sums it up for me. I'm afraid that if Ubisoft don't provide some serious after release support for this title in the form of patches in what appears a rush to release 3/4 finished sim then I'm a no go on this and I will go back to SHIII. Sure it might not have the sexy eye candy of SHV but for me I could live with that. SHV could be such a great sim. It appears to have so much potential but only time will tell if Ubisoft pull their finger out and turn things around for the better. I'm holding off laying down my cash this time. __________________ "In a Christian context, sexuality is traditionally seen as a consequence of the Fall, but for Muslims, it is an anticipation of paradise. So I can say, I think, that I was validly converted to Islam by a teenage French Jewish nudist." Sheikh Abdul-Hakim Murad (Timothy Winter)

03-18-10, 06:24 PM	#90
DedEye Electrician's Mate Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Edmonton Posts: 133 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	Sums up my experience really well. She's a bit of a mixed bag; there's some great stuff here but a lot of not-so-great too. __________________ U-Boot Spezial Cocktail......neidisch?