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#1 |
Navy Seal
![]() Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast
Posts: 5,966
Downloads: 1
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#2 |
Subsim Aviator
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its a shame what the German Military has become over the past 69 years.
a once dominant force which marched across much of the globe... reduced to polite warnings on the field of battle. all of the great generals throughout history are laughing at man's modern excuse for war. Mars help us ![]()
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#3 |
Sailor man
![]() Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 43
Downloads: 17
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So far, Germany doesnt even admit to being in a war. For many politicians, its still a "humanitarian mission" where "violent situations might arise".
Humanitarian mission my ass.... |
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#4 |
Fleet Admiral
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Hang on I need to consult my handbuch before posting a stunning response...
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#5 |
Soaring
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Yes, political ambitions have seriously messed up orientation of the Bundeswehr mission in Afghanistan. However, to get this a bit more correct: the main difference now is that before, German soldiers immediately had to stop fighting and shooting once an attacker turned away, they were not allowed at all to shoot at fleeing enemies, even if they just had launched an attack or blown up a bomb. This now is allowed (a Green politician yesterday complained on radio about Germans now shooting Afghans into the rear...). Also they were denied to open fire preemptively in the preparatory phase of an obvious attack, this also now is allowed.
The German position on the war is very much confused, and disconnected from the realities. That the senior Dummschwätzer in the defence minstry still denies that there is a war going on in Afghanistan, which also is the official policy of the government and most politicians in the Bundestag, is a symptom for that. But in parts that is also owed to the complex legal constellation around the war in Afghanistan, and the lacking legal basis for the dimension of the Western military engagement there, a legal basis that is such that it stopped short of legitimising an official "war" in Afghanistan. Admitting that one is waging a war there would mean to admit in public that one is breaking international law, or better: that one is going beyond those means that had been legitimised to be used in Afghanistan. If that does not sound nice: "war is not allowed in Afghanistan". The Germans are aware of that fact - and took it as a welcomed excuse in the past to stay out of the real nasty actions. In some other countries, this unwelcomed legal circumstance simply gets ignored. The whole situation is very stupid. Beyond the legal implication, the orientation of the Germans shows that the German policy is very disoriented and confused, no matter the status regarding legitimation of war in Afghanistan, so it is not really an important detail excusing the Germans. The German strategy had it's merits in the early years, when it showed superior successes, compared to the American strategy of that time. But then the Taliban came back after the Americans prematurely left Afghanistan to itself for too long, and ruined that German strategy, and what is left in practicing it takes place under the cover of American and allied combat missions. When that change occured some years ago, Berlin should have made a decision of either staying in Afghanistan, but massively changing one's strategy and widening the military mandate of the Germans, or to pull out completely. What we have now is a Gordian knot of super-foul compromises. And if the British complain about having too few helicopters, they should ask the Germans about their equipement. The Germans depend for every rescue mission, for every major shift of forces on foreign helicopters, since they have almost none. Since it is no war there, we do not need them, you know. It is not the soldiers's fault, so do not blame them - blame the German politicians. I knew some who were there, and got their first-hand feedback. Maybe their ideals sometimes are over-ambitious and misled when going there - but a lack of determination to even fight you cannot excuse them of. It's just that their political leaders are binding their hands on their back. Since I cannot see any realistic assessement of Afghanistan in German policy, no realistic strategic planning, no vision of what could be acchieved realistically, no sufficient material support for the troops, and no idea of how to define exit strategies and -criterions, I would like to see the troops being pulled out completely. I cannot justify to risk their lives for such a messed-up political confusion. In thinking so, I fall into the group of those 85% of the German population who wants the troops out better yesterday than today, but my motives are different, since most Germans reject the very perspective of German soldiers fighting with weapons overseas. Different to that principal rejection, I am questioning the political leadership and it's lack of wisdom. If you do war, do it in full, and not on a dilletant's niveau. If you are not ready to do it in full, don't do it at all. It all has been done so stupid from the very beginning. Not only from the German's side, btw. Now everybody is trapped in the Afghan maze. Britain's Miliband wants to negotiate with those who once were called "mankind's worst enemies", which is revealing in itself, and he talks of "moderate Taliban". Moderate Taliban. Now think of that contradiction in itself: a moderate extremist.
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If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 07-29-09 at 05:09 AM. |
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#6 |
Navy Seal
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Miliband is an idiot with no clue as to the world.
I agree there is no such thing as a moderate Taliban. |
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