Time to pay the piper

Rockstar · 08-21-13, 12:22 PM

Remember SSGT Bales?

"This bastard stood right in front of me!" said Haji Naim to a military panel of two Colonels, a Lt. Colonel, a Master Sergeant, and two command Sgt. Majors. "I wanted to ask him, ‘What did I do? What have I done to you?'... And he shot me!"

"Swift believes that the defense has an uphill climb. “We know he won’t get a needle stuck in his arm,” he said. “For the defense to get life with the possibility of parole would be an accomplishment. It’s the politics of it. This is by far the worst war crime since Vietnam by American troops. It will absolutely weigh heavily on their decision.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...urce=pulsenews

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-21-13, 12:29 PM

In my opinion death sentence should have been considered. If jury found it inappropriate punishment then so be it but it should atleast have been on the table.

Stealhead · 08-21-13, 02:13 PM

He murdered 16 people and he they want to give him the chance of parole?Are they joking?

Of course they always try to come up with an excuse.

I do not agree with what the article says feeling that other combat vets will feel sorry for him.I know plenty of guys that where in Vietnam,Iraq,elsewhere that would not find that kind of action acceptable.

Of course the officer that was largely responsible for Mat Lai got pardoned.

Jimbuna · 08-21-13, 02:17 PM

16 murders is an awful lot to consider, in leniency terms

Stealhead · 08-21-13, 02:29 PM

Personally I do not place a higher value on a human life based on who they where or where they are from.We all know that if they had been American citizens they would not have even considered suggesting the guy get the chance of parole.

Dowly · 08-21-13, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Personally I do not place a higher value on a human life based on who they where or where they are from.We all know that if they had been American citizens they would not have even considered suggesting the guy get the chance of parole.

Precisely.

Rockstar · 08-21-13, 03:06 PM

I know some were ready to hang him without trial the moment they heard. I was of the camp not to feed him to the wolves until he had his day in court and not until all the facts of the case were in. Well it seems they're in. I said too awhile ago if he was not guilty then get him the help he needs. But if he was found guilty turn him over to the families whose relatives he murdered.

Wolferz · 08-21-13, 03:12 PM

Four deployments?!?! Now I know the brass are out of their freaking minds!

They, the brass, put this ticking time bomb over there to go off when least expected, like an IED. Now the question in my mind is, were all of these tours voluntary or mandatory? Even the Viet Nam debacle only carried a mandatory one tour and home. This guy should have been posted at home in a training command after two tours.

Ducimus · 08-21-13, 03:13 PM

Speaking generally about the crime of murder, if the defendant is proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt - I am a big fan of the death penalty.

For one, the punishment should fit the crime, but for two, lets be pragmatic. Anyone guilty of such crimes is only going to be a financial burden to society because it costs money to lock him up, feed him, cloth him, tend to medical needs, etc. People guilty of capital murder are not worth the lifelong expense. Best to punish them as befitting their crime and be done with it.

As to this individual case, I'm not sure what to think. Four deployments does weigh heavily on my mind. That doesn't excuse him of his crime (nor it's punishment) , but after four combat deployments, he should not have been there anymore, at least not in a direct combat role. I feel the government does have bear some responsibility.

BrucePartington · 08-21-13, 03:52 PM

After reading the article linked in OP, it seems plausible to me that his reasoning broke down out there.
He acknowledges what he did was wrong, and hints at not remembering certain things.

I have never been in combat, but in my teenage years I spent 6 years in a military boarding school. It was just terrible, I lived in terror 24h a day, specially after all teachers and military staff went home. I spent most of the time in hiding rather than studying and doing my homework.
After 3 years my reasoning broke down. I found myself doing the silliest things, having the silliest reactions.
Has anyone here ever seen the British film "If " ? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063850/
It was mild in comparison.
In general, older students were evil and cruel to younger students, only because "it has always been like that". Reminds me of the experiment with the monkeys and the banana inside the cage, and they all got showered every time one tried to reach for the banana.
It took me a while to recover my sanity.
Yes your reasoning breaks down after prolonged exposure to stressful situations, even more so when you live in constant fear.

Wolferz · 08-21-13, 03:59 PM

For what it's worth, Ducimus, I concur.
But, Bales will serve his sentence in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. It's not the Hilton like the white collar federal pens. He'll be spending his days in misery for his drug induced mistake. Well, I should say mistakes. Sixteen of them in point of fact. What a maroon.

Stealhead · 08-21-13, 05:02 PM

Well plenty of people in the current armed forces have pulled more than four deployments.Further more there is no specification the length a deployment could be anywhere from a few months to a little over a year.It just says that he did four deployments nothing more and specifies nothing further as to their length.

No matter really if he is guilty he will get what he deserves in the end.

Ducimus · 08-21-13, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Well plenty of people in the current armed forces have pulled more than four deployments.

Quite true. However I think we both know that not everyone takes things the same way, or as well. Everybody is different in what they can take or how long they can take it.

Quote:

Further more there is no specification the length a deployment could be anywhere from a few months to a little over a year.It just says that he did four deployments nothing more and specifies nothing further as to their length.

EXCELLENT point. For some reason, i was equating the articles use of "four deployments" in the same context as "four short tours", which is waaaayyy different. On that note, exactly how long is a typical army deployment? A short tour in the AF is usually 365 days, but I know the AF can deploy you for 179 days. They often cut a persons deployment at that point so they don't get the six month short tour credit; and often enough send them right back out again in a few days under new set of orders.

(BOHICA)

Quote:

No matter really if he is guilty he will get what he deserves in the end.

Yeah pretty much. I'm not supportive of the guy, but what I meant to say is that if there was a systemic failure in whatever system the Army has in place, that allowed a guy who probably should have been sent to the psych ward at walter reed instead of another deployment, then it should probably be looked at. I mean, **** man, there's a reason why the AF started it's Expeditionary system. To give people a freaking break due to "operational tempo". They started that system just after I left active duty, and in my line of work, we had people deployed 200+ days out of the year.

Dowly · 08-22-13, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

It just says that he did four deployments nothing more and specifies nothing further as to their length.

Twelve months in 2003-2004, fifteen months in 2006-2007 and ten months in 2009-2010, according to wikipedia.

08-21-13, 12:22 PM	#1
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Time to pay the piper Remember SSGT Bales? "This bastard stood right in front of me!" said Haji Naim to a military panel of two Colonels, a Lt. Colonel, a Master Sergeant, and two command Sgt. Majors. "I wanted to ask him, ‘What did I do? What have I done to you?'... And he shot me!" "Swift believes that the defense has an uphill climb. “We know he won’t get a needle stuck in his arm,” he said. “For the defense to get life with the possibility of parole would be an accomplishment. It’s the politics of it. This is by far the worst war crime since Vietnam by American troops. It will absolutely weigh heavily on their decision.” http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...urce=pulsenews

08-21-13, 12:29 PM	#2
kraznyi_oktjabr Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Republiken Finland Posts: 1,803 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	In my opinion death sentence should have been considered. If jury found it inappropriate punishment then so be it but it should atleast have been on the table. __________________ You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic. - Dr. House

08-21-13, 02:17 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	16 murders is an awful lot to consider, in leniency terms __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-21-13, 03:12 PM	#8
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Four deployments?!?! Now I know the brass are out of their freaking minds! They, the brass, put this ticking time bomb over there to go off when least expected, like an IED. Now the question in my mind is, were all of these tours voluntary or mandatory? Even the Viet Nam debacle only carried a mandatory one tour and home. This guy should have been posted at home in a training command after two tours. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

08-21-13, 03:59 PM	#11
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	For what it's worth, Ducimus, I concur. But, Bales will serve his sentence in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. It's not the Hilton like the white collar federal pens. He'll be spending his days in misery for his drug induced mistake. Well, I should say mistakes. Sixteen of them in point of fact. What a maroon. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

08-21-13, 02:13 PM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	He murdered 16 people and he they want to give him the chance of parole?Are they joking? Of course they always try to come up with an excuse. I do not agree with what the article says feeling that other combat vets will feel sorry for him.I know plenty of guys that where in Vietnam,Iraq,elsewhere that would not find that kind of action acceptable. Of course the officer that was largely responsible for Mat Lai got pardoned.

08-21-13, 02:29 PM	#5
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Personally I do not place a higher value on a human life based on who they where or where they are from.We all know that if they had been American citizens they would not have even considered suggesting the guy get the chance of parole.

08-21-13, 03:06 PM	#7
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I know some were ready to hang him without trial the moment they heard. I was of the camp not to feed him to the wolves until he had his day in court and not until all the facts of the case were in. Well it seems they're in. I said too awhile ago if he was not guilty then get him the help he needs. But if he was found guilty turn him over to the families whose relatives he murdered.

08-21-13, 03:13 PM	#9
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Speaking generally about the crime of murder, if the defendant is proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt - I am a big fan of the death penalty. For one, the punishment should fit the crime, but for two, lets be pragmatic. Anyone guilty of such crimes is only going to be a financial burden to society because it costs money to lock him up, feed him, cloth him, tend to medical needs, etc. People guilty of capital murder are not worth the lifelong expense. Best to punish them as befitting their crime and be done with it. As to this individual case, I'm not sure what to think. Four deployments does weigh heavily on my mind. That doesn't excuse him of his crime (nor it's punishment) , but after four combat deployments, he should not have been there anymore, at least not in a direct combat role. I feel the government does have bear some responsibility.

08-21-13, 03:52 PM	#10
BrucePartington XO Join Date: May 2013 Location: KM AM99 Posts: 405 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	After reading the article linked in OP, it seems plausible to me that his reasoning broke down out there. He acknowledges what he did was wrong, and hints at not remembering certain things. I have never been in combat, but in my teenage years I spent 6 years in a military boarding school. It was just terrible, I lived in terror 24h a day, specially after all teachers and military staff went home. I spent most of the time in hiding rather than studying and doing my homework. After 3 years my reasoning broke down. I found myself doing the silliest things, having the silliest reactions. Has anyone here ever seen the British film "If " ? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063850/ It was mild in comparison. In general, older students were evil and cruel to younger students, only because "it has always been like that". Reminds me of the experiment with the monkeys and the banana inside the cage, and they all got showered every time one tried to reach for the banana. It took me a while to recover my sanity. Yes your reasoning breaks down after prolonged exposure to stressful situations, even more so when you live in constant fear.

08-21-13, 05:02 PM	#12
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Well plenty of people in the current armed forces have pulled more than four deployments.Further more there is no specification the length a deployment could be anywhere from a few months to a little over a year.It just says that he did four deployments nothing more and specifies nothing further as to their length. No matter really if he is guilty he will get what he deserves in the end.