UK faces court over migrant benefits

Jimbuna · 05-30-13, 11:36 AM

STEED and BossMark should love this

Quote:

Britain is being taken to court by the European Commission for allegedly discriminating against EU nationals who claim social security in the UK.
Ministers are accused of discriminating against those from EU member states who have been living and working in the UK.
It is alleged an extra residency test applied by the UK to see if migrants are eligible to claim breaches EU law.
Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith said he planned to fight the commission "every step of the way".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22712569

05-30-13, 03:28 PM

The government is onto a loser there.
The provisions it agreed to(with conditions on new member states) is essentially the same as has existed with Ireland since the free state got created.
If it is applying one set of laws and refusing to apply an identical set then it is clearly in breach of those laws.
I wonder if Britain backs down before October when universal credit kicks in and hits all those european workers in their wagepackets.?

STEED · 05-30-13, 03:43 PM

Well I have to say it this way, who ever is in power it will not make a jot until we get out of the EU.

tat501 · 05-30-13, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

The government is onto a loser there.
The provisions it agreed to(with conditions on new member states) is essentially the same as has existed with Ireland since the free state got created.
If it is applying one set of laws and refusing to apply an identical set then it is clearly in breach of those laws.
I wonder if Britain backs down before October when universal credit kicks in and hits all those european workers in their wagepackets.?

Absolutely. From a legal standpoint the Government hasn't got a leg to stand on really. Its obvious to the meanest intelligence that application to migrants from other EU states of a "residency test" which UK citizens do not have to pass directly discriminates and so will be found to be in breach of Art 45, as long as they are "looking for a job" and so are classified as a "worker".

If you are not working, cannot support yourself and are not looking for work, then you are not classified as a "worker" under Article 45 of the Treaty of the Functioning of the European Union.

As far as I can see, the only defence the government may put forwards is that the "residency test" is equivalent to requiring that the migrant from another MS simply be looking for work and thus exempts only those migrants who are not genuinely seeking employment in this country.

Of course, the elephant in the room here is that it was our past governments who happily signed us up to the EU and signed away our national sovereignty piece by piece without ever giving us the chance to have our say, except from the one time we were allowed a say on joining what was assumed to be only a "common market".

As we all know now, the idea that all the EUSSR would ever be was a common market was a fig leaf to get us all to accept it.

Its frankly ludicrous that now they have signed us up to these ridiculous requirements that are solely aimed at undermining our national sovereignty and our national homogeneity in order to create a new class of citizen loyal to the Federal EU rather than nation state now expect us to believe that they are really actually fighting against such an encroachment of our sovereignty! I'm not falling for that IDS. You politicos got us in to bed with Europe so don't pretend you didn't know the consequences.

BossMark · 05-31-13, 05:02 AM

Tell them to piss off its our bloody country if they don't pay in then they shouldn't get bugger all back

05-31-13, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Tell them to piss off its our bloody country if they don't pay in then they shouldn't get bugger all back

Make sure you don't let facts get in the way of your nationalist rant.
You sound jst like like IDS

BossMark · 05-31-13, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You sound jst like like IDS

Not possible I speak with my heart, its impossible for IDS to do that as he don't have one

Skybird · 05-31-13, 06:50 AM

It has become so totally unimaginable for me why people should have the right to demand payments when they never contributed in return.

If only Atlas would shrug. If only he would.

Jimbuna · 05-31-13, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

It has become so totally unimaginable for me why people should have the right to demand payments when they never contributed in return.

If only Atlas would shrug. If only he would.

Well I'd certainly like to see that being the definitive position. A bit like Australia unless they've relaxed the rules in recent years.

STEED · 05-31-13, 08:51 AM

The EU is a criminally corrupt, so corrupt they make the Mafia look honest.

BossMark · 05-31-13, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

The EU is a criminally corrupt, so corrupt they make the Mafia look honest.

I suppose the same could be said about my boss

STEED · 05-31-13, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossMark

I suppose the same could be said about my boss

What!...the famous Don of Leeds!

Dan D · 05-31-13, 09:06 AM

Yea, EU citizens who can claim social security in other EU countries and the countries associated with the EU which are Iceland. Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. That sounds as if the EU law would be offerering great opportunities for people like you and me, does not it?

But, believe me. I have checked that already years ago.

Do you really think that I would be that stupid to be sitting here in my office right now and be posting to you if I could claim social security in other EU countries without having paid contributions to the social security scheme of that country before?

If that would be possible, I would have years ago quit working forever and would have already moved to a sunny and warm place with beaches somewhere in a French or British Oversea territory which is part of the EU , too., let say the Caribian Martinique for example, and would be living on social benefits/welfare there, as I don't need much, just a coconut and a bit of rum or red wine here and there.

Such a plan has a flaw unfortunately: the freedom of movement to any EU country and Liechtenstein, Norway, Schwitzerland and Icleand is limited for people who are unemployed. You need to have enough own funds to live without depending on social benefits/welfare to reside somewhere else. Otherwhise they throw you out of the country.

What have I been thinking? Bossmark has decribed it correctly.

Oberon · 05-31-13, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Make sure you don't let facts get in the way of your nationalist rant.
You sound jst like like IDS

Welcome to UK 2013 plc
Please leave all facts at the door.

Skybird · 05-31-13, 12:36 PM

In my thinking ther eis no unlimited freedom of movement. You have that in ground/land that is not possessed by somebody. If you want to move on or thorugh land or on streets owed by soembody, you have to ask the owner for permission.

In an ideal world, it would be private peple possessing the land, the road build on it, and it would be them deciding whether a road would be build at all. Unfortunately the democratic polit-mafia has destroyed that ideal. People no longer have the right to act in full proprietary rights over their property, and roads have been enforced to reach them and to make them object of blackmailing them for protection money. The so-called "state" now owns roads which are build by these protection moneys. And for that reason alone the "state" enforces migration being allowed to flow on these roads, no matter whether the natives having land bordering these roads want that or not.

It's all a very sick and criminal system. And the state-arrangement has enforced this to allow antisocial parasites - politicians and administrators - to live at the cost of the community and command it where their commanding is not needed and the local people in a place all by themselves could decide in which way they cooperate and push an traffic infrastructure across their property. Why people in Hamburg are taxed in order to pay for a road in Bavaria, is beyond me. The new road through that Bavarian village should be decided on and payed for exclusively by those sharing a border with it or needing to allow it leading over their property. How can a state own ground and land and property? The state is - nothing but a hypothetical construction claimed by politicians and profiteers to be the latest dress of the kind where the kind inf act already walks naked.

The right and guarantee for private property is the basis of anything worth to be called an order based on the principle of freedom. That's why the communist utopia, where nobody owns anything but all own everything, necessarily will lead, always, to centralised dictatorship and totalitarianism, as well overboarding bureaucracy and a phlegmatic attitude in people where nobody feels responsible for anything anymore but all make claims for what they demand, and instead everybody must improvise in a system that increasingly rots and falls apart. It'S a human basic truth: we care more for what is ours and what is our family and property,m than for what is not ours, and is not our family or tribe. They can try social engineering as much as they want, those leftist world-improving wannabe tyrants - they will fail, every time. Reality and natural law never bend to ideological demands.

If somebody thinks this all is a bit far-fetched or disconnected from the thread, he better thinks again.

05-30-13, 03:43 PM	#3
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Well I have to say it this way, who ever is in power it will not make a jot until we get out of the EU. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

05-31-13, 05:02 AM	#5
BossMark Fleet Admiral Join Date: May 2011 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 15,272 Downloads: 278 Uploads: 0	Tell them to piss off its our bloody country if they don't pay in then they shouldn't get bugger all back __________________ Never trust the Tories look what Thatcher and Major did in the 80s and 90s and look what the wicked witch May is doing now doing now

05-31-13, 06:50 AM	#8
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It has become so totally unimaginable for me why people should have the right to demand payments when they never contributed in return. If only Atlas would shrug. If only he would. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-31-13, 08:51 AM	#10
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	The EU is a criminally corrupt, so corrupt they make the Mafia look honest. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

05-31-13, 09:06 AM	#13
Dan D Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: 9th Flotilla Posts: 839 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yea, EU citizens who can claim social security in other EU countries and the countries associated with the EU which are Iceland. Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. That sounds as if the EU law would be offerering great opportunities for people like you and me, does not it? But, believe me. I have checked that already years ago. Do you really think that I would be that stupid to be sitting here in my office right now and be posting to you if I could claim social security in other EU countries without having paid contributions to the social security scheme of that country before? If that would be possible, I would have years ago quit working forever and would have already moved to a sunny and warm place with beaches somewhere in a French or British Oversea territory which is part of the EU , too., let say the Caribian Martinique for example, and would be living on social benefits/welfare there, as I don't need much, just a coconut and a bit of rum or red wine here and there. Such a plan has a flaw unfortunately: the freedom of movement to any EU country and Liechtenstein, Norway, Schwitzerland and Icleand is limited for people who are unemployed. You need to have enough own funds to live without depending on social benefits/welfare to reside somewhere else. Otherwhise they throw you out of the country. What have I been thinking? Bossmark has decribed it correctly. __________________

05-30-13, 03:28 PM	#2
Tribesman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	The government is onto a loser there. The provisions it agreed to(with conditions on new member states) is essentially the same as has existed with Ireland since the free state got created. If it is applying one set of laws and refusing to apply an identical set then it is clearly in breach of those laws. I wonder if Britain backs down before October when universal credit kicks in and hits all those european workers in their wagepackets.?

05-31-13, 12:36 PM	#15
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	In my thinking ther eis no unlimited freedom of movement. You have that in ground/land that is not possessed by somebody. If you want to move on or thorugh land or on streets owed by soembody, you have to ask the owner for permission. In an ideal world, it would be private peple possessing the land, the road build on it, and it would be them deciding whether a road would be build at all. Unfortunately the democratic polit-mafia has destroyed that ideal. People no longer have the right to act in full proprietary rights over their property, and roads have been enforced to reach them and to make them object of blackmailing them for protection money. The so-called "state" now owns roads which are build by these protection moneys. And for that reason alone the "state" enforces migration being allowed to flow on these roads, no matter whether the natives having land bordering these roads want that or not. It's all a very sick and criminal system. And the state-arrangement has enforced this to allow antisocial parasites - politicians and administrators - to live at the cost of the community and command it where their commanding is not needed and the local people in a place all by themselves could decide in which way they cooperate and push an traffic infrastructure across their property. Why people in Hamburg are taxed in order to pay for a road in Bavaria, is beyond me. The new road through that Bavarian village should be decided on and payed for exclusively by those sharing a border with it or needing to allow it leading over their property. How can a state own ground and land and property? The state is - nothing but a hypothetical construction claimed by politicians and profiteers to be the latest dress of the kind where the kind inf act already walks naked. The right and guarantee for private property is the basis of anything worth to be called an order based on the principle of freedom. That's why the communist utopia, where nobody owns anything but all own everything, necessarily will lead, always, to centralised dictatorship and totalitarianism, as well overboarding bureaucracy and a phlegmatic attitude in people where nobody feels responsible for anything anymore but all make claims for what they demand, and instead everybody must improvise in a system that increasingly rots and falls apart. It'S a human basic truth: we care more for what is ours and what is our family and property,m than for what is not ours, and is not our family or tribe. They can try social engineering as much as they want, those leftist world-improving wannabe tyrants - they will fail, every time. Reality and natural law never bend to ideological demands. If somebody thinks this all is a bit far-fetched or disconnected from the thread, he better thinks again. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.