why always WWIII

[Red Brow]

Why are all the Web worry warts always crying about the coming of WWIII? Back in the 97 Airpower Journal, stated: "By one estimate, 125 million people have died in 149 wars since 1945"... This was the estimate of John Otranto, executive director, Global Care, Munich, Germany.

Even if that estimate was a bit over the real amount - still what was that? Was it like 'WW2 & 1/2' Assuming that only one half of John Otranto's estimate was valid - that sounds an awful lot like WWIII to me. When you add up the list of battlefields, the amount of ordinance used, and the money spent it dwarfs WWI and WWII. Can't these modern Web nerd-religious-prophets count? They should be biting their collective butts and running around in circles crying about the upcoming WWIV.

The Cold War was never treated like a real war even though it really was (but mislabeled as Police Actions). In 1992 I once pointed out to a Vietnam vet, who was glum that the USA had lost in Vietnam, saying. "Hey guy Vietnam was just one campaign in the great Cold War. Hey, WE won the Cold War. We lost campaigns near the beginning of WWII, but we won WWII. Your effort was not wasted."

Our population being less jaded than this present dissing-throw-you-off-the Island generation, this old vet accepted what I said. Of course I will admit he had had a few beers.

[Cybermat47]

You are very much mistaken.

A World War implies that there are either:

a) Many different countries all over the World at war with each other (WWII)

OR

b) Several countries in close proximity at war, but fighting all over the World (WWI)

You can't count the Cold War as a World War, because all the 'campaigns' were regarded as seperate conflicts; it would only have been a world war if all of the Warsaw pact and Communist countries went to war with NATO.

Also, it wasn't just the Warsaw pact and NATO at war in that period; There was also the Falklands war, the Russian-Afghan war; NATO gave no direct assistance. If you count providing supplies as a direct act of war, then America was on both sides in WWI until 1917.

Also, if anyone won the Cold War, it was the Russians who got rich selling Soviet military tech on the blackmarket/EBay.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

b) Several countries in close proximity at war, but fighting all over the World (WWI).

WW1 was a world war for the same reason WW2 was. Many different countries from all over the world were involved.

Non-European countries which declared war on Germany:
Brazil
China
Costa Rica
Greece (well, they're technically in Europe, but still not normally considered)
Guatemala
Japan (actually helped escort Allied convoys in the Pacific, and was almost involved in the sinking of SMS Emden)
Liberia
Montenegro
Nicaragua
Panama
Siam (Thailand)
United States (of course)

Several others broke diplomatic relations with the Central powers, but stopped short of actually declaring war.

Only a small handful actually engaged in the combat, but it was a World War in every sense of the word.

[Cybermat47]

oops.

[Stealhead]

I don't think you can really say who won the Cold War to be honest.True the Soviet Union collapsed and the West did "win" in that respect.Some wars where seen as part of the Cold War and one side or another got involved in them.Vietnam is a great example of this because we failed to realize that we were entering a civil war between the Vietnamese.

The Russians did not gain from the out come of the Cold War very much at all.The Russian government made very little money on all of the arms because they had been giving it away for so long few people needed new weapons.

If anything the end of the Cold War has allowed other nations to rise like China, Brazil and India.Generally speaking from a hegemonic point of view little has changed the Russians have less power but try to strongly influence neighbors and Russia still sees the West/NATO as a threat.The same can be said for the US and both the US and Russia still maintain sizable stockpiles of nuclear weapons.The game has not ended more than changed slightly and some nations are becoming big players that where not big players 40 years ago.

A world war in the sense of WWII or WWI wont happen again.You will either see smaller nations fight smaller nations or a larger nation fight a smaller nation or group on a limited scale.A true world conflict would result in the major players using nuclear weapons against each other and that would be that more or unless you are a cock roach or Keith Richards.

[Red Brow]

You are right, and really it was just a stand off fought with proxies. Still I feel that the vet who was down in his spirits over Vietnam should see Vietnam as a successful delaying action in the Cold War (which was not a world war). I'm probably stretching things there too. See I knew you guys were level headed when I asked you about China's navy.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Red Brow

Still I feel that the vet who was down in his spirits over Vietnam should see Vietnam as a successful delaying action in the Cold War (which was not a world war).

Forgot to mention:

God Bless you for that

[Stealhead]

I know Vietnam vets that see the war many different ways some see the entire thing as having been a mistake others feel like the leadership got it wrong others feel that the protesters made us loose.

My dad is the type that feels that getting involved in the first place was wrong.Now he was LRRP a recon man so he knew how the enemy fought and could see what was going down more than the average infantryman would have.

I did a few months TDY in Afghanistan but I was a maintenance man a mechanic so I did not know usually what was going on out side the wire so to speak.I would say that maybe at one point we had the right idea in Afghanistan but got lost along the way somewhere.I have a brother that has done a few tours there as a Marine officer he has not said much about how he feels so I don't ask if he wanted to say he would.

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by Red Brow

Why are all the Web worry warts always crying about the coming of WWIII?

I think the composers of got it about right.

[Catfish]

^
Watch World War three
on pay TV
before your televison melts awaayyy


Thanks very much

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

I think the composers of got it about right.

THAT. WAS. EPIC.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I know Vietnam vets that see the war many different ways some see the entire thing as having been a mistake others feel like the leadership got it wrong others feel that the protesters made us loose.

I'm one of the ones who feels that we should never have been there at all. We went in to prop up the losing side of a general election, and supported a dictator simply because he was our dictator and not a Godless Communist. When he tried to go his own way we helped a newer dictator assassinate the first one. It was a mess from the beginning and we didn't learn the lesson from the French experience a decade earlier, and we didn't learn the lesson we handed to the British back in 1812.

On the other hand I used to have a friend who was a combat infantryman in Vietnam, and very nearly killed there, who insisted that we should have won and shown them all what for. We used to have some great discussions.

Another friend's dad was a highly decorated WW2 and Korean vet who had been an 'advisor' in Vietnam in 1960. My friend said he would take his pistol and shoot off his son's big toe before he'd let his son go there.

Originally Posted by Hottentot

I think the composers of got it about right.

WOW! I remember that song! My best friend at the time's dad had that album. I'd forgotten all about it. A little research showed me an entertaining side-fact: The author of that song and the others on the record was also the man who wrote the score for Mary Poppins! Thanks, Mister H!

On the other hand we had our own 'anti' song, and it became a classic.

[Hottentot]

Err, actually it was Penguin who sent me some great songs, including , for my class this week, and I just surfed on from there, finding all those CDS songs from Youtube's links. One of them was that, and it instantly became my favorite due to still being relevant today. I recommend listening to the other songs on that list as well.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

On the other hand we had our own 'anti' song, and it became a classic.

Small world. I played that to the pupils too, but on the other hand, was also on the playlist. What confuses me even more is that Marty Robbins is also singer in the song which I learned to like in Fallout: New Vegas' soundtrack.

Sheesh, I really need to go and start that topic on political music here one of these days...

[mapuc]

I thought it was Germany that declared war on USA and not the other way

Markus

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Hottentot

Err, actually it was Penguin

But you're the one who posted it here, so kudos go to you.

My dad was a huge Marty Robbins fan back in the day, and 'Big Iron' was one of his favorites. of course he also wrote the legendary 'El Paso', but that's getting further off topic.