![]() |
SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997 |
![]() |
#1 |
Navy Seal
![]() Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Valhalla
Posts: 5,295
Downloads: 141
Uploads: 17
|
![]()
Agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service pore through the workshop at the Gibson Guitar factory on Wednesday morning.
Federal agents swooped in on Gibson Guitar Wednesday, raiding factories and offices in Memphis and Nashville, seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. The Feds are keeping mum, but in a statement yesterday Gibson's chairman and CEO, Henry Juszkiewicz, defended his company's manufacturing policies, accusing the Justice Department of bullying the company. "The wood the government seized Wednesday is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier," he said, suggesting the Feds are using the aggressive enforcement of overly broad laws to make the company cry uncle. It isn't the first time that agents of the Fish and Wildlife Service have come knocking at the storied maker of such iconic instruments as the Les Paul electric guitar, the J-160E acoustic-electric John Lennon played, and essential jazz-boxes such as Charlie Christian's ES-150. In 2009 the Feds seized several guitars and pallets of wood from a Gibson factory, and both sides have been wrangling over the goods in a case with the delightful name "United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms." The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn't be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the "equivalent of Africa's blood diamonds." But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle. It isn't just Gibson that is sweating. Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next. SOURCE |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
PacWagon
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts
Posts: 2,908
Downloads: 287
Uploads: 0
|
![]()
well, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth...
__________________
Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Eternal Patrol
![]() |
![]()
That's a tough call. Illegal importation is in an of itself a serious crime. But a player who bought the instrument in good faith? I agree with the idea that we should be boycotting manufacturers over this, and it is hypocrisy to be "green" except where it suits you, but an older instrument?
I had an Epiphone 12-string that I bought in 1978. That makes it two years older than my first daughter, and a major part of my life. Unfortunately it was stolen a few years back, but the point here is, what if I still had it? Epiphone is a subsidiary of Gibson. Was it made with illegal materials? If it was, would I be liable for buying an instrument off the rack when I had no clue what it was made of? According to this I certainly could have been: Quote:
__________________
“Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Ace of the Deep
![]() Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Athens, the original one.
Posts: 1,226
Downloads: 9
Uploads: 0
|
![]()
Anyway fretboards are not needed anymore. Guitars are not needed anymore. You can "air" play it!!! Check this. And just to keep things is perspective, what do you call it when you "air" perform sex ? Ok if Gibson used "banned" material there is a problem. But I would really like a "life cycle analysis" of a fully "synthetic" made instrument. Would be interesting ...
![]() .
__________________
- Oh God! They're all over the place! CRASH DIVE!!! - Ehm... we can't honey. We're in the car right now. - What?... er right... Doesn't matter! We'll give it a try anyway! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Undetectable
![]() Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,221
Downloads: 132
Uploads: 0
|
![]()
Ebony wood is banned? I had no idea.
I have a chess set and the black squares and black pieces are ebony. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Eternal Patrol
![]() |
![]()
Good point. One of the selling points for certain high-rent basses is the ebony fretboard. I'm poor, so mine are both rosewood.
__________________
“Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Stowaway
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Undetectable
![]() Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,221
Downloads: 132
Uploads: 0
|
![]()
TY for that clarification.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Stowaway
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
|
![]()
You sure about this, what if it's to do with the price of the dam things. Nearly 2grand for a standard in the UK, crazy. Oh but what a beaut. heh.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Stowaway
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
|
![]()
Thread necro
![]() Gibson gets a nice bill for $350k for shipping illegal wood with false documentation plus the $300k illegal part of the wood shipment is siezed. It emerges that Gibsons own staff raised the issue of them breaking the law with their shipments two years before this case started, which I suppose explains why the management were doing it with false paperwork in place. |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Kaiser Bill's batman
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AN72
Posts: 13,203
Downloads: 76
Uploads: 0
|
![]() I'll say, but a relevant one. So of this $350k fine how much goes to the traders that would've got the order legally? Or any environmental group? Or just into the treasury? And what do you do with $300k worth of illegal wood? Sell it? Burn it? Build a shed for the White House? ![]()
__________________
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Wayfaring Stranger
|
![]()
I wonder how many gazillion guitar frets can be made from a single tree?
__________________
![]() Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
Eternal Patrol
![]() |
![]() Quote:
![]()
__________________
“Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | ||
Stowaway
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
|
![]() Quote:
Quote:
One other question remains though, what happens about the 3 other shipments they got between the siezed one and their staff and suppliers telling them the shipments were illegal? Without a the contents of the actual shipments to prove that the cargo was really what was written on the documentation it looks like they get away with those three. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
Navy Seal
![]() |
![]() Quote:
![]() ...
__________________
__________________________________________________ __ |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|