Visibility/Sonar - Range - Keeping stealthy

kvbrock82 · 09-22-10, 03:31 AM

Hey guys,

This has been a big question mark for me ever since i started playing because it always seems a bit random to me. Im on GWX @ 100% with 16km distance if it makes any difference.

When stalking a target/convoy/whatever, what is the minimum distance that you can approach it without being spotted if on the surface? And how much does the weather and time of day play into this?

Also, how many knots is it safe to hit(and at what distance from target) in order to remain off the hydrophones of any patrolling ships?

And another one, is it possible to attack ships on the surface in crap weather or will i get spotted straight away? If so what distances are we talking about?

cheers,
brock

Herr-Berbunch · 09-22-10, 04:30 AM

GWX improved the AI so that a ships spot you at varying ranges, some ships have inexperienced crews and some have experienced crews, and then there are the very experienced crews. Generally in the earlier years you'll mostly meet the former, but as the years go by...

Weather/sea state does play a factor but again it depends on the crew, and is again quite random.

I can't help with your last two questions, in fact I don't even think I've helped with the first two

kvbrock82 · 09-22-10, 04:57 AM

thanks for the reply..

Well that raised and answered another question as i didnt know that crew experience plays a big difference.

Thanks

09-22-10, 06:46 AM

I don't know the exact limit, but I've never had a destroyer spot me beyond 10k out, so I stay that far away until I'm ready to dive and let them come to me.

sharkbit · 09-22-10, 07:13 AM

I'll usually shadow/end round at about 10-12km out at ahead standard without any problems, closer if weather permits. You have to watch your speed though-too fast and you are more likely to get spotted. If you feel the need to go to full or flank, get further out, maybe out of visual range completely.
You got to watch the escorts if you are doing this with a convoy though-they randomly patrol out from the convoy and then rejoin. It can be a pain at times.

Later in the war when the escorts are equipped with radar, you need to adapt your tactics and be real careful when shadowing and approaching. You may start asking yourself "Why do I want to attack this heavily escorted convoy anyways? They never did anything to me."

Weiss Pinguin · 09-22-10, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvbrock82

Also, how many knots is it safe to hit(and at what distance from target) in order to remain off the hydrophones of any patrolling ships?

No more than ahead slow for inexperienced ships, and then about 90 down to 50 RPMs as experience goes up. To control your RPMs switch the speed control over to the knot gauge and drag the hand to just below 2 knots for 90 RPMs and just under 1 knot for 50 RPMs.

kvbrock82 · 09-22-10, 10:57 AM

Interesting stuff guys.. any idea what distances you could push in bad weather in the atlantic?

Is it a case of 'if you cant see them they cant see you'?

frau kaleun · 09-22-10, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvbrock82

Interesting stuff guys.. any idea what distances you could push in bad weather in the atlantic?

Is it a case of 'if you cant see them they cant see you'?

My last patrol I intercepted a convoy in really bad weather - middle of the night, driving rain. I was running in on the surface and had no clue I'd gotten closer to them than I expected to be until I submerged and started picking the ships up on the 'phones. I was maybe 2.5 km away from the nearest escort and if I'd ever been any closer than that on the surface they didn't see me. I was about halfway between the outer screen and the starboard column and had already gone past the lead escort and about half the length of the convoy proper. As far as I could tell nobody ever got a visual on me and by the time things started exploding it was too late for that.

In RL a u-boat on the surface would be, in theory, less noticeable from the same distance than a surface ship. Low visibility in general would help with that, as would any sea state that helped conceal its wake. How much the game models this I can't say but, in general, I've always taken the cautious approach of assuming that, if I can see them, they might be able to see me.

Weiss Pinguin · 09-22-10, 01:34 PM

On my last patrol (late 41) I got within 5000 meters of escorting destroyers (while following a convoy) and was able to slip away without being sighted. Every time was evening/early morning and with decent weather conditions, and I changed course as soon as my WO reported the destroyer. Maybe you have to be within range a certain time before they notice you?

K-61 · 09-22-10, 01:41 PM

To confirm your RPM's, free roam through your boat to the engine gauges [Shift + F2]. Drag your knot needle until it hits the desired RPM. I get very close to the gauge and have found that by dragging in tiny increments I can set it by 10's. If you are below 150 metres, 50 RPM's may not be enough to maintain depth and your boat will begin to sink, slowly at first and then accelerating. You'll have to increase your RPM's in order not to plunge to your doom. I usually set my dive depth to about 150 and only go deeper if I am forced to. At 150 you are usually below the thermal layer [modelled but not indicated, as the Germans did not have a layer gauge.]

desirableroasted · 09-22-10, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvbrock82

Interesting stuff guys.. any idea what distances you could push in bad weather in the atlantic?

Is it a case of 'if you cant see them they cant see you'?

On a dark, foggy night, you can get within a few feet of them without them reacting, but of course you don't see them either until it is almost too late. I've been within 15 meters of a Dido (it looks like a very high wall) and, frankly, that was more than close enough. In fact, I didn't know what it was until I got on the UZO and it was Dido for about 100 degrees. I carefully drifted past, stayed surfaced, fired a torpedo from the stern, but no one ever noticed.... had to use the hydrophone to shoot and I had a weak signal, so I probably didn't come close.

But the next five minutes was living hell, merchants, tankers, freighters coming out of the gloom, nearly cutting me in half, vanishing. But I didn't want to dive, because I didn't want an escort to pick me up. Finally, they all disappeared.

And I had a beer.

K-61 · 09-22-10, 01:57 PM

Surfaced attacks on convoys when radar is in use by the escorts is a certain way to get killed. You are blind but they can see you. I was attacked twice by a corvette in such conditions until it suddenly hit me that he had radar. How did he manage to come out of the fog headed straight for me? After that I dove and broke off contact. From that point forward I have always made submerged approaches in bad weather and of course the success rate is lower. One change of course by the convoy and you are left behind. The only way of getting a hit is to use your hydrophones and plant yourself where they will sail right in front or behind you and hope not to get rammed.

desirableroasted · 09-22-10, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-61

From that point forward I have always made submerged approaches in bad weather and of course the success rate is lower. .

I simply don't make approaches in low visibility anymore. You can't see what you are shooting (though, if submerged, you can pretty accurately hit "what ever it is" using the hydrophone if you are within 1000 m), you will be told if you hit it, but you have no idea if you have slowed it down. And then how are you going to find the thing in the fog? And avoid lord knows what all rest of the convoy zig-zagging and trying to avoid what you hit.

JokerOfFate · 09-22-10, 03:39 PM

A few patrols back I was in nasty weather, heavy rain, fog, rough seas and it was night so Vis wise I couldn't see my hand in front of my face.Next thing I know there's a merchant 200m in front of me.
After an hour I hit her, the problem was I was using mags instead of Impacts

I think it depends more on the ship type rather than the crew:
Tribals are always hardcore,
But Hunt Is are always useless,

Although the crew play a big part as well.
(This is based more on personal Exp. rather than modding skills)

Plus how much of your ship is Visible.

After a bit of practice you'll know when they've spotted you, by the way they maneuver and how they're acting.

Now, go get some stealth kills

09-22-10, 03:31 AM	#1
kvbrock82 Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 137 Downloads: 240 Uploads: 0	Visibility/Sonar - Range - Keeping stealthy Hey guys, This has been a big question mark for me ever since i started playing because it always seems a bit random to me. Im on GWX @ 100% with 16km distance if it makes any difference. When stalking a target/convoy/whatever, what is the minimum distance that you can approach it without being spotted if on the surface? And how much does the weather and time of day play into this? Also, how many knots is it safe to hit(and at what distance from target) in order to remain off the hydrophones of any patrolling ships? And another one, is it possible to attack ships on the surface in crap weather or will i get spotted straight away? If so what distances are we talking about? cheers, brock Last edited by kvbrock82; 09-22-10 at 04:19 AM.

09-22-10, 04:30 AM	#2
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	GWX improved the AI so that a ships spot you at varying ranges, some ships have inexperienced crews and some have experienced crews, and then there are the very experienced crews. Generally in the earlier years you'll mostly meet the former, but as the years go by... Weather/sea state does play a factor but again it depends on the crew, and is again quite random. I can't help with your last two questions, in fact I don't even think I've helped with the first two __________________

09-22-10, 07:13 AM	#5
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	I'll usually shadow/end round at about 10-12km out at ahead standard without any problems, closer if weather permits. You have to watch your speed though-too fast and you are more likely to get spotted. If you feel the need to go to full or flank, get further out, maybe out of visual range completely. You got to watch the escorts if you are doing this with a convoy though-they randomly patrol out from the convoy and then rejoin. It can be a pain at times. Later in the war when the escorts are equipped with radar, you need to adapt your tactics and be real careful when shadowing and approaching. You may start asking yourself "Why do I want to attack this heavily escorted convoy anyways? They never did anything to me." __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

09-22-10, 01:34 PM	#9
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	On my last patrol (late 41) I got within 5000 meters of escorting destroyers (while following a convoy) and was able to slip away without being sighted. Every time was evening/early morning and with decent weather conditions, and I changed course as soon as my WO reported the destroyer. Maybe you have to be within range a certain time before they notice you? __________________

09-22-10, 01:41 PM	#10
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	To confirm your RPM's, free roam through your boat to the engine gauges [Shift + F2]. Drag your knot needle until it hits the desired RPM. I get very close to the gauge and have found that by dragging in tiny increments I can set it by 10's. If you are below 150 metres, 50 RPM's may not be enough to maintain depth and your boat will begin to sink, slowly at first and then accelerating. You'll have to increase your RPM's in order not to plunge to your doom. I usually set my dive depth to about 150 and only go deeper if I am forced to. At 150 you are usually below the thermal layer [modelled but not indicated, as the Germans did not have a layer gauge.] __________________

09-22-10, 04:57 AM	#3
kvbrock82 Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 137 Downloads: 240 Uploads: 0	thanks for the reply.. Well that raised and answered another question as i didnt know that crew experience plays a big difference. Thanks

09-22-10, 06:46 AM	#4
Hans Uberman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I don't know the exact limit, but I've never had a destroyer spot me beyond 10k out, so I stay that far away until I'm ready to dive and let them come to me.

09-22-10, 10:57 AM	#7
kvbrock82 Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 137 Downloads: 240 Uploads: 0	Interesting stuff guys.. any idea what distances you could push in bad weather in the atlantic? Is it a case of 'if you cant see them they cant see you'?

09-22-10, 01:57 PM	#12
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Surfaced attacks on convoys when radar is in use by the escorts is a certain way to get killed. You are blind but they can see you. I was attacked twice by a corvette in such conditions until it suddenly hit me that he had radar. How did he manage to come out of the fog headed straight for me? After that I dove and broke off contact. From that point forward I have always made submerged approaches in bad weather and of course the success rate is lower. One change of course by the convoy and you are left behind. The only way of getting a hit is to use your hydrophones and plant yourself where they will sail right in front or behind you and hope not to get rammed. __________________

09-22-10, 03:39 PM	#14
JokerOfFate Sonar Guy Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 387 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	A few patrols back I was in nasty weather, heavy rain, fog, rough seas and it was night so Vis wise I couldn't see my hand in front of my face.Next thing I know there's a merchant 200m in front of me. After an hour I hit her, the problem was I was using mags instead of Impacts I think it depends more on the ship type rather than the crew: Tribals are always hardcore, But Hunt Is are always useless, Although the crew play a big part as well. (This is based more on personal Exp. rather than modding skills) Plus how much of your ship is Visible. After a bit of practice you'll know when they've spotted you, by the way they maneuver and how they're acting. Now, go get some stealth kills