Israel into the EU...???

[Skybird]

Berlusconi wants Israel joining the EU, so reported by German, Swiss and Israeli newspapers and several English blogs.

I wonder who is more retarded here: Berlusconi trying to bring a hot warzone into the EU, or the Israelis if they would be dumb enough to follow such an invitation, if the EU would made it a serious offer.

It is in nobody's interest, only the Muslim world's. The Europeans in no way are able and ready to handle a warzone, and the Israelis would find themselves very critically gagged and bound by European laws and policies prohibiting them to execute their right of self-defence when clashing with Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria or Iran. Military support they would not have to expect, for that europe is too sensible and culturally too advanced, but an army of EU lawyers wuld go after them, and sanctions trying to bind them both hands on their back while getting beaten up. Lovely.

Plus: the territory of Israels lies outside Europe, in the Orient, the Middle East. If Israel is allowed into the EU, then there is no argument anymore not to count South Africa and Korea, Marocco and Saudi Arabia as "EU", too.

But I fear there are enough brain-amputees in the EU's political offices who seriously feel liftet by the idea. It would give them remarkable options to weaklen and destroy the unloved Jewish state. Good opportunity to try getting more pally with the muslims again.


Be clever and wise, Israel, and don't believe in any european's word, ever. Kick Berlusconi's lower bottom out of your country, soon, and forget his nightmarish wish immediately. Concerning Europe, you stand alone. And alone you are stronger than with the EU blackmailing you and calling it "alliance".

P.S. But I must insist that the next two submarines you now demand Germany to deliver , must actually payed by you for sure. Not like the last time: getting Germany sharing some of the cost, with you saying you pay only a minor share of it, and then jnot even paying this minor share, but paying nothing, getting all the boats for 100% free.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Plus: the territory of Israels lies outside Europe, in the Orient, the Middle East.

and where is Turkey? Plus you like doner kebabs, don't ya?

[Skybird]

Where Turkey is? Not inside the european cultural context and ethical value order, that is sure.

And no, I do not like Döner. Not because they are a Berlin Turkman's invention, but becasue I do not like them. Like I also do not like Hamburger or Mexican Chili. Terrible way to assimilate calories. Italian, Chinese, some Japanese and some German cuisine do well enough for me.

[Oberon]

Yeah...Israel...in the EU...got nothing against Israel but I can't see that happening any time soon.

Berlusconi must not have gotten laid recently... He's becoming more incoherent than usual...

[Happy Times]

Isrealis would really like the free movement of people and goods for sure.

But seriously im all for giving Israel everything but the official membership, in all areas of co-operation.
Strongest possible ties are in the best interest of both i believe.

Plus: the territory of Israels lies outside Europe, in the Orient, the Middle East. If Israel is allowed into the EU, then there is no argument anymore not to count South Africa and Korea, Marocco and Saudi Arabia as "EU", too.

How many places outside Europe are already part of the EU.

[JSLTIGER]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Berlusconi must not have gotten laid recently... He's becoming more incoherent than usual...

Maybe that assault loosened a bit more than a couple of teeth....

That being said, I don't quite know how I feel about this proposal...I see upsides and downsides to it.

[Letum]

They would never agree to the entry criteria.

[Spoon 11th]

Originally Posted by kranz

and where is Turkey? Plus you like doner kebabs, don't ya?

Haha, fail. Israel? No thanks. Turkey? No thanks.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by kranz

and where is Turkey? Plus you like doner kebabs, don't ya?

Döner kebab, yum!

But how tasteful their cuisine might be, I don't think either Israel or Turkey should join the EU. It's the European Union, and as you can see from the picture below neither Israel or (90% of) Turkey are part of Europe.

In the case any of the two should join the EU, IMO Turkey has got more rights because at least the Northwestern part of it is European.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Döner kebab, yum!

But how tasteful their cuisine might be, I don't think either Israel or Turkey should join the EU. It's the European Union, and as you can see from the picture below neither Israel or (90% of) Turkey are part of Europe.

In the case any of the two should join the EU, IMO Turkey has got more rights because at least the Northwestern part of it is European.

5% Would be closer to it I think, however, the main argument is the massive cultural difference between the West and the Orient, not geographical hairsplitting. Turkey's culture in very dominant parts violates basic Western conceptions that has been anchored in our constitutional orders as well as our philosophic traditions and law systems, although we have started to loosen these ties.

Seen that way, Israel is - culturally - many times closer to us, than Turkey, and the similiarities between it'S state structure and legislation and that of EU states are much greater than between European states and Turkey.

And a state like Turkey:

that is so secular that it runs a state-driven religion-ministry,

that inteferes with the internal politics of other foreign nations and does not hide that it uses demographic pressure for trying to turn them over and bring them under Turkish influence
(former turkish president Demirel once told former German chancellor Schmidt that he demands Germany to take 15 million Turks, and that Turkey will produce these legions of colonists and that Germany gefälligst has to let them in,
while Erdogan two years ago on a visit in Germany told Turkish colonists that they should actively refuse integration, that demanding them to integrate would be equal a crime against humanity),

this Turkey

whose government and political leaders just months ago have declared to the world that the genocides and massacres committed by Muslims in Sudan and Darfhur,

and the nuclear conspiracies of Syria

cannot be any wrongdoing, because these countires are Islamic countries and thus they are unable to ever do any wrong;

this Turkey where the fundamentalists have taken over government and enforced Islamic rules in the state's services and education systems again, resulting in orthodox hardliners and fundamentalistic lobbies increasingly taking over keyposts, with women quotas in jobs and public offices having seen a massive drop since Erdogan took over -

this Turkey should be handled with greater care than barrels with radioactive waste.

Yea well, it's not exactly like the world doesn't already know that the Germans have a problem with the Jews. Oh yea, we know this very well.

As far as Israel joining up, I wounldn't mind them trying to meet the criteria. I doubt they would ever give up their rights to wage wars against civilians, torture etc.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Berlusconi wants.....

Well that's pretty much enough for me. I can't stand that bloke, I've seen spambots smarter than him.

On a more serious note, while not having anything particular against Israel, I say, no to EU. EU=European Union. Israel isn't a part of Europe geographically so...(Yes, for me, it's that simple).

[goldorak]

@ Skybird : I agree 100% with your assessment.
I have only a little critic to make, its not only the muslim world that has to gain from Israel's entry into the European Community but also the US.
Never forget the US. It is they that have for decades pushed for Turkey's entry in the EU, and now they are trying to push Israel in as well. And for what ? Their strategic vision is different from ours. They see the EU not as a homogeneous political and economical entity with its specific borders dicated by history, but as loosely knit of countries that support NATO. Americans don't care and never have about the political european process. What they care is having a set of countries into NATO to act as a stop gap against russia, against a future middle east danger etc....
It doesn't matter if the identity of europe is compromised, Turkey, Israel, who knows maybe even some north african countries in the future.
Nato is a danger to europe, it should have been dismantled the moment the cold war ended. Unfortunately we still have it, and its the service door through which american influence still manages to harm us. Of course our own politicians don't help in the process.

[CaptainHaplo]

Goldorak,

Interesting thought and perspective. But what makes you think the US would support Israel in the EU? From my perspective, such a thing would be a huge negative for the US, and I suspect that we would advise Israel against joining.

Nato as an entity really has changed, and is no longer a huge political concern for us.