Couple of Das Boot questions...

Weiss Pinguin · 12-08-09, 11:13 AM

So while on vacation last month I picked up Das Boot when I visited the USS Pampanito (Btw if you find yourself in San Francisco and haven't yet seen her, do it!), and I found it to be so good that I'm reading it again

2 questions though:
A) Partway through the book the Old Man mentions homing torpedoes and the subsequent British countermeasure, however, the book takes place in late 1941, and according to every source/article/etc I've read it wasn't until mid-1943 that the first homing torpedoes were deployed, along with the decoy Foxer. Was this just a slip-up by the author, or were there really early homing torpedoes that I haven't heard of?

B) For the first 1/3 of the book all the various UA/UX/UF/etc acronyms confused me, before I realized they referred to various U-boats. Were these codenames assigned to U-boats, a naming system, or just something Buchheim came up with for the book?

(Btw, sorry if this is in the wrong section, but as Das Boot is about U-boats I figured the SHIII section might be better than the general 'Submarine books' section)

Sailor Steve · 12-08-09, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

A) Partway through the book the Old Man mentions homing torpedoes and the subsequent British countermeasure, however, the book takes place in late 1941, and according to every source/article/etc I've read it wasn't until mid-1943 that the first homing torpedoes were deployed, along with the decoy Foxer. Was this just a slip-up by the author, or were there really early homing torpedoes that I haven't heard of?

Buchheim stretched things a little, combining and adding where he thought it would add to the story.

Quote:

B) For the first 1/3 of the book all the various UA/UX/UF/etc acronyms confused me, before I realized they referred to various U-boats. Were these codenames assigned to U-boats, a naming system, or just something Buchheim came up with for the book?

No, they were not real names or code names. He wanted his story to be as generic as possible. In the movie they restored the name of the boat he actually travelled on, U-96. Then they followed the book and had the boat sunk at the end of that patrol. The real U-96 was indeed sunk during an air raid while docked, but not until the very end of the war.
http://www.uboat.net/boats/u96.htm

Quote:

(Btw, sorry if this is in the wrong section, but as Das Boot is about U-boats I figured the SHIII section might be better than the general 'Submarine books' section)

Either one is okay on a subject like this. There have been many threads about the book and the movie in both sections (and a few others besides).

Weiss Pinguin · 12-08-09, 04:54 PM

Ah, thanks. The codenames didn't bother me all that much, but when I read about the torpedoes I literally spent 10 minutes trying to figure out how Buchheim might've slipped up when everything else seemed to be match up with what I know on U-boats. (Not that I would know much about the technical details of a U-boat

)

Sailor Steve · 12-08-09, 08:18 PM

It's well-known that Buchheim had a low opinion of the movie, but I've heard that some u-boatmen said the same thing about the book.

I take both for what they are: perhaps not historically perfect, but the best available representation of what life was like for those particular warriors.

frau kaleun · 12-08-09, 08:59 PM

To echo what Sailor Steve said - IIRC it's generally acknowledged that Buccheim combined experiences and impressions from more than one u-boat patrol into a book that fictionalizes just one...which did lead to some anachronisms, since he's drawing on events that took place over the entire course of the war and not just late 1941.

I've also read that the designations given to the u-boats in the book were to keep people from thinking that he was talking about a specific known boat and its commander and crew, especially since much of the book is drawn from real-life experiences but some is fictional. If he had used the numerical designations it might give away exactly who he was talking about (if he was relating a real event) or make people think that something fictional or partly so was a real event involving a known boat and crew when it might not be.

Given the reaction that the book got from some of the surviving u-boat men when it was published, it's probably a good thing that he didn't use the real designations/names of boats and their commanders, lol.

Weiss Pinguin · 12-08-09, 09:22 PM

lol, I figured that might be the case. Still a good read, anachronisms and all

Sailor Steve · 12-09-09, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

and impressions from more than one u-boat patrol into a book that fictionalizes just one.

I forgot all about that part. He did indeed go on (I think) three patrols with two different boats. Your points about not using real numbers are great as well.

Quote:

I would love to read some of his other books, but IIRC none of them have been translated into English.

I understand that he wrote two more novels about the same characters, and no, neither one has been translated.

His real book, U-Boat War, which chronicles real events and is full of pictures, is indeed available in English, and quite good.
http://www.amazon.com/U-Boat-War-Lot...0339744&sr=1-1

12-08-09, 11:13 AM	#1
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Couple of Das Boot questions... So while on vacation last month I picked up Das Boot when I visited the USS Pampanito (Btw if you find yourself in San Francisco and haven't yet seen her, do it!), and I found it to be so good that I'm reading it again 2 questions though: A) Partway through the book the Old Man mentions homing torpedoes and the subsequent British countermeasure, however, the book takes place in late 1941, and according to every source/article/etc I've read it wasn't until mid-1943 that the first homing torpedoes were deployed, along with the decoy Foxer. Was this just a slip-up by the author, or were there really early homing torpedoes that I haven't heard of? B) For the first 1/3 of the book all the various UA/UX/UF/etc acronyms confused me, before I realized they referred to various U-boats. Were these codenames assigned to U-boats, a naming system, or just something Buchheim came up with for the book? (Btw, sorry if this is in the wrong section, but as Das Boot is about U-boats I figured the SHIII section might be better than the general 'Submarine books' section) __________________

12-08-09, 04:54 PM	#3
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Ah, thanks. The codenames didn't bother me all that much, but when I read about the torpedoes I literally spent 10 minutes trying to figure out how Buchheim might've slipped up when everything else seemed to be match up with what I know on U-boats. (Not that I would know much about the technical details of a U-boat ) __________________

12-08-09, 08:18 PM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	It's well-known that Buchheim had a low opinion of the movie, but I've heard that some u-boatmen said the same thing about the book. I take both for what they are: perhaps not historically perfect, but the best available representation of what life was like for those particular warriors. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-08-09, 09:22 PM	#6
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	lol, I figured that might be the case. Still a good read, anachronisms and all __________________

12-08-09, 08:59 PM	#5
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	To echo what Sailor Steve said - IIRC it's generally acknowledged that Buccheim combined experiences and impressions from more than one u-boat patrol into a book that fictionalizes just one...which did lead to some anachronisms, since he's drawing on events that took place over the entire course of the war and not just late 1941. I've also read that the designations given to the u-boats in the book were to keep people from thinking that he was talking about a specific known boat and its commander and crew, especially since much of the book is drawn from real-life experiences but some is fictional. If he had used the numerical designations it might give away exactly who he was talking about (if he was relating a real event) or make people think that something fictional or partly so was a real event involving a known boat and crew when it might not be. Given the reaction that the book got from some of the surviving u-boat men when it was published, it's probably a good thing that he didn't use the real designations/names of boats and their commanders, lol.