The allies could of ended the U-boat war much earlier.

Oneshot/Onekill · 03-09-09, 10:13 PM

http://www.uboat.net/technical/batteries.htm

It absolutely dumbfounds me that after reading this that the allies, both British and American bomber commands ignored this for 4 years!

I would love to hear your comments.

rubenandthejets · 03-09-09, 10:24 PM

Hindsight is 20-20.

Bomber Command had their hands full and like the article says "after the war" realised the missed opportunity.

It took the Schweinfurt ball bearing factory raid in 1943 to make the Germans realise the bottlneck in their whole war machine was this single plant, responsible for 80%+ of their production. A couple of follow up raids there would have stopped EVERYTHING by the end of 43.

Here is another missed opportunity for Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force, one they knew about but thought they'd destroyed.

Oneshot/Onekill · 03-09-09, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubenandthejets

Hindsight is 20-20.

Bomber Command had their hands full and like the article says "after the war" realised the missed opportunity.

It took the Schweinfurt ball bearing factory raid in 1943 to make the Germans realise the bottlneck in their whole war machine was this single plant, responsible for 80%+ of their production. A couple of follow up raids there would have stopped EVERYTHING by the end of 43.

Here is another missed opportunity for Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force, one they knew about but thought they'd destroyed.

Hind sight or not, you'd have to believe that between the 8th Airforce, British bomber command, and the 9th tactical Airforce that they could of scaped a few bombers together?

Torplexed · 03-09-09, 10:30 PM

The American and British bomber campaign against Germany really didn't start to hit it's stride until 1943-44 by which point the U-Boats were already in retreat. Some debate the effectiveness of the whole Allied aerial bombing campaign to this day, (German industrial production actually increased in 1944 despite it) although it did have the nice side effect of forcing the Luftwaffe to defend German factories instead of supporting the German army.

Oneshot/Onekill · 03-09-09, 10:47 PM

I wholeheartily agree, and i do understand that the bombing campaighn didnt get to full speed until the middle to late part of the war. But after the way Churchhill saw the U-boat, and the fact that the factory was within range of early war bombers, you'd of thought ole Winston would of let the dogs out.

The amazing thing is that they(the allies) didnt even know of the factories existance untill 43!

Torplexed · 03-09-09, 11:03 PM

The problem was early in the war there weren't enough bombers to make a difference. Due to the inaccuracy of strategic bombing it took vast fleets of bombers to do any appreciable damage to a target. It's estimated that only 10% of the bombs dropped by strategic bombers actually hit their intended target and that's depending on how liberally you define a hit. Indeed sometimes in post raid assessment the Germans could not decide which town (not the installation in the town) had been the intended target because the scattering of bomb craters was so wide. Sadly, there were no Allied laser guided missiles in WW2.

Ultimately strategic bombing become more about smashing the enemy will to resist and wholesale destruction than a pin-point effort to hit specific targets.

A Very Super Market · 03-10-09, 12:33 AM

Furthermore, you would need to escort the bombers there, and with the limited numbers, and little long-ranged fighters you would be throwing away your bombers for a target they might not even hurt.

bookworm_020 · 03-10-09, 01:17 AM

It was the same story with many targets in germany. The lack of bombers, not knowing of bottlenecks in the german supply chain, and so on.

irish1958 · 03-10-09, 09:08 AM

The bomber commands felt that the indiscriminate bombing of "targets" would "reduce the morale" of the enemy's general population, in spite of the response of the British civilian population to the Blitz. Curtis LeMay especially thought so in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary; and to this day, so did the American (at least civilian) command in Iraq.
The only thing that appears to work is nuclear bombing and complete destruction of whole cities in an instant.

Sailor Steve · 03-10-09, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneshot/Onekill

Hind sight or not, you'd have to believe that between the 8th Airforce, British bomber command, and the 9th tactical Airforce that they could of scaped a few bombers together?

"Hindsight" means they didn't know about it until they occupied the plant after the war. They can't destroy what they don't know about.

Oh, and FYI: In your title, it should be "Could Have", not "Could Of".

irish1958 · 03-10-09, 09:18 AM

SS
Are you sure you are not an English teacher?

Sailor Steve · 03-10-09, 09:21 AM

LOL no, but with 50+ years of reading behind me I grind my teeth when I read things I think should be obvious. Not that they are obvious to everyone, just that I think so.

mookiemookie · 03-10-09, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

Furthermore, you would need to escort the bombers there, and with the limited numbers, and little long-ranged fighters you would be throwing away your bombers for a target they might not even hurt.

Not to mention that by using your fighters as escorts in a major bombing campaign, you'd be leaving the homeland relatively undefended in the face of the Battle of Britain.

Fincuan · 03-10-09, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Not to mention that by using your fighters as escorts in a major bombing campaign, you'd be leaving the homeland relatively undefended in the face of the Battle of Britain.

Not to mention the main fighter types at the time of the Battle would have to turn back a little bit a after crossing the coast of mainland Europe

Dread Knot · 03-10-09, 10:10 AM

Not well known in the history of WW2 was the uncanny ability of concrete industrial facilities to take a licking and keep on ticking. Probably the best example was the Dzerzhinsky Tractor Works in Stalingrad which despite being bombed by the Luftwaffe, shelled by artillery and sniped at kept producing tanks that moved unpainted off the production line and straight into the battle for Stalingrad. It didn't stop producing tanks until the battle moved into the factory itself.

03-09-09, 10:13 PM	#1
Oneshot/Onekill Captain Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Drinking a cold one in Davey Jone's locker. Posts: 487 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	The allies could of ended the U-boat war much earlier. http://www.uboat.net/technical/batteries.htm It absolutely dumbfounds me that after reading this that the allies, both British and American bomber commands ignored this for 4 years! I would love to hear your comments.

03-09-09, 10:24 PM	#2
rubenandthejets 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 279 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Hindsight is 20-20. Bomber Command had their hands full and like the article says "after the war" realised the missed opportunity. It took the Schweinfurt ball bearing factory raid in 1943 to make the Germans realise the bottlneck in their whole war machine was this single plant, responsible for 80%+ of their production. A couple of follow up raids there would have stopped EVERYTHING by the end of 43. Here is another missed opportunity for Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force, one they knew about but thought they'd destroyed. __________________ HMAS Sydney III "Thorough and Ready"

03-10-09, 12:33 AM	#7
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Furthermore, you would need to escort the bombers there, and with the limited numbers, and little long-ranged fighters you would be throwing away your bombers for a target they might not even hurt. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

03-10-09, 01:17 AM	#8
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	It was the same story with many targets in germany. The lack of bombers, not knowing of bottlenecks in the german supply chain, and so on. __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

03-10-09, 09:08 AM	#9
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	The bomber commands felt that the indiscriminate bombing of "targets" would "reduce the morale" of the enemy's general population, in spite of the response of the British civilian population to the Blitz. Curtis LeMay especially thought so in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary; and to this day, so did the American (at least civilian) command in Iraq. The only thing that appears to work is nuclear bombing and complete destruction of whole cities in an instant. __________________ Irish1958

03-09-09, 10:30 PM	#4
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The American and British bomber campaign against Germany really didn't start to hit it's stride until 1943-44 by which point the U-Boats were already in retreat. Some debate the effectiveness of the whole Allied aerial bombing campaign to this day, (German industrial production actually increased in 1944 despite it) although it did have the nice side effect of forcing the Luftwaffe to defend German factories instead of supporting the German army.

03-09-09, 10:47 PM	#5
Oneshot/Onekill Captain Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Drinking a cold one in Davey Jone's locker. Posts: 487 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I wholeheartily agree, and i do understand that the bombing campaighn didnt get to full speed until the middle to late part of the war. But after the way Churchhill saw the U-boat, and the fact that the factory was within range of early war bombers, you'd of thought ole Winston would of let the dogs out. The amazing thing is that they(the allies) didnt even know of the factories existance untill 43!

03-09-09, 11:03 PM	#6
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	The problem was early in the war there weren't enough bombers to make a difference. Due to the inaccuracy of strategic bombing it took vast fleets of bombers to do any appreciable damage to a target. It's estimated that only 10% of the bombs dropped by strategic bombers actually hit their intended target and that's depending on how liberally you define a hit. Indeed sometimes in post raid assessment the Germans could not decide which town (not the installation in the town) had been the intended target because the scattering of bomb craters was so wide. Sadly, there were no Allied laser guided missiles in WW2. Ultimately strategic bombing become more about smashing the enemy will to resist and wholesale destruction than a pin-point effort to hit specific targets.

03-10-09, 09:18 AM	#11
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	SS Are you sure you are not an English teacher? __________________ Irish1958

03-10-09, 09:21 AM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	LOL no, but with 50+ years of reading behind me I grind my teeth when I read things I think should be obvious. Not that they are obvious to everyone, just that I think so. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo Last edited by Sailor Steve; 03-10-09 at 11:32 AM.

03-10-09, 10:10 AM	#15
Dread Knot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,288 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Not well known in the history of WW2 was the uncanny ability of concrete industrial facilities to take a licking and keep on ticking. Probably the best example was the Dzerzhinsky Tractor Works in Stalingrad which despite being bombed by the Luftwaffe, shelled by artillery and sniped at kept producing tanks that moved unpainted off the production line and straight into the battle for Stalingrad. It didn't stop producing tanks until the battle moved into the factory itself.