Linear plotting of contacts on paper

Puster Bill · 07-21-07, 07:15 PM

OK, the other day I was playing SHIII and I was trying to gain a decent firing position on a large merchant in bad weather (heavy fog, rain, etc). It was ahead of me, to the starboard, and on just about a parallel course.

Because I didn't want to stop or slow down (I was doing an average of 13 knots) to do my normal manual targeting with Hitman's excellent Kriegsmarine whiz-wheel, or to use my Pickett linear slide rule, this is what I did*:

I had the watch officer give me the range and bearing to the contact, and I started the stop watch. I then drew that observation on a piece of graph paper, using a ruler and a protractor. After 3 minutes and 15 seconds, I did the same thing. I then had his course, speed, AOB, and distance.

I plotted the contacts out, adjusted my course to be exactly parallel to his course, and fired a bow tube when the target was at a bearing of 89 degrees, and my stern tube (I don't do Type IX's) once he was at 91 degrees. He went down pretty quickly, and since this happen in the Minch**, I keep going at all ahead full.

My point is that actually plotting it out on paper is a fun and tactile way to experience manual targeting, and can be a useful check against using a whiz-wheel or one of the other methods of manual targeting. I used a cheap protractor and ruler that were made for kids. You don't need to use a maneuvering board either. In fact, for a short interval like 3:15 a regular piece of graph paper works fine.

*I figured out later on that I *COULD* have used the whiz-wheel, at least to get target speed. When I worked it out later on the wheel, I got a result of 6.5 knots. Target speed was actually 6 knots, and I was doing an 'average' of 13 knots (probably more like 12.5 knots) because of rough weather. I would have just subtracted the result from my speed, giving target speed.

** I like patrolling the Minch. You get the merchant traffic, but it doesn't seem like you get as many ASW patrols as the Channel or the Irish Sea.

GoldenRivet · 07-21-07, 08:24 PM

I have tried it that way - it was fun. but a nice way to eat up paper.

If you want - go to the store and buy a large sketch book of graph paper.

on a similar note i have given much consideration to printing out a large version of the SH3 map on many 8.5 X 11 inch pages. taping them all together into charts about 16X22 inches and doing manual navigation this way... talk about a challenge

I have the proper plotting tools to use... just no life size tangible charts

Puster Bill · 07-22-07, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I have tried it that way - it was fun. but a nice way to eat up paper.

If you want - go to the store and buy a large sketch book of graph paper.

on a similar note i have given much consideration to printing out a large version of the SH3 map on many 8.5 X 11 inch pages. taping them all together into charts about 16X22 inches and doing manual navigation this way... talk about a challenge

I have the proper plotting tools to use... just no life size tangible charts

Couldn't you just use conventional paper charts that you can purchase at places like marinas and such?

GoldenRivet · 07-22-07, 01:21 PM

i suppose... but aeronautical charts run about 10 bucks a piece... i would hate to think what nautical charts cost, besides i live about 200 miles away from the nearest oceanside marina

Kunsa · 07-22-07, 08:43 PM

there is a way you could do it.

open the .raw format maps in a picture editor, zoom in to the desired level and cut and paste that portion into a new picture and print it. this way you could create as many different region maps as you like and if they are saved you can print them again whenver you want.

raw format pictures are greyscale pictures with a set width and height(just in case your editor needs raw type info) width and height are in the name of the maps.

Puster Bill · 07-22-07, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i suppose... but aeronautical charts run about 10 bucks a piece... i would hate to think what nautical charts cost, besides i live about 200 miles away from the nearest oceanside marina

Thing about sectional charts: Go to the airport right around the time they are about to expire (every 6 months), and you will get them for half price or less. If you time it right, they may just give them to you. You can't (or at least shouldn't) use them for real navigation, but expired sectionals are just jim-dandy for Flight Sim.

GoldenRivet · 07-22-07, 08:57 PM

yeah i have enough of them laying around to wall paper my office lol... in fact in my last appartment i had an entire wall of Texas Oklahoma Arkansas and Louisiana.

just the thing about sea charts is that they are harder for me to get my hands on

Corsair · 07-23-07, 02:39 AM

Why not doing it simply anywhere on the map screen ? you have all the tools and you can erase it after...

Puster Bill · 07-23-07, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsair

Why not doing it simply anywhere on the map screen ? you have all the tools and you can erase it after...

That's the whole point: I could do it on the screen (and have, many many times). It just isn't the same as plotting it out on a piece of paper.

Doing it on the map screen feels like an exercise in computerized geometry. Doing it on paper makes it feel more 'real'.

Corsair · 07-23-07, 01:19 PM

I would think that in reality the nav plotting was done more often on sea maps than on pieces of paper... As far as attack is concerned, from my readings I have the feeling they didn't do any plotting at all...

XLjedi · 07-23-07, 01:19 PM

Why don't you take a snapshot or two of your graph paper plots and post em so people can see what you're doing?

XLjedi · 07-23-07, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsair

I would think that in reality the nav plotting was done more often on sea maps than on pieces of paper... As far as attack is concerned, from my readings I have the feeling they didn't do any plotting at all...

I don't see the practice mentioned a lot by the skippers in their books/memoirs. But from the detailed post-mortems and patrol reports where the positions and counter-movements of the sub and target were plotted in great detail, along with at what point in the tracks torpedos were fired (they sometimes even plotted the path of the torpedo) hits/misses recorded and final ship sinking locations...

Someone had to be taking those notes and doing some dead-reckoning plotting in real time as the situation was evolving.

Corsair · 07-23-07, 01:32 PM

May be you're right, I never had the chance to read real patrol reports...

XLjedi · 07-23-07, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corsair

May be you're right, I never had the chance to read real patrol reports...

As for real patrol reports...

I haven't had time to hunt them down or read any either. But a few of the books I have read did include some diagrams of attacks that I figure must've come from their patrol reports and tracking team plotting activities.

The diagrams I've come across just struck me as being way too precise for a post mortem re-sketch of the action.

Puster Bill · 07-23-07, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

Why don't you take a snapshot or two of your graph paper plots and post em so people can see what you're doing?

Next time I'm in a position where I have to do that (ie., because of being in a tail chase scenario, or just way out of position, I can't slow to use the wheel for speed and AOB), I'll grab a couple of shots.

It isn't much to see, though. Basically just looks like a skewed parallelogram.

07-21-07, 07:15 PM	#1
Puster Bill Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2006 Location: BA8758, or FN33eh for my fellow hams. Posts: 833 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Linear plotting of contacts on paper OK, the other day I was playing SHIII and I was trying to gain a decent firing position on a large merchant in bad weather (heavy fog, rain, etc). It was ahead of me, to the starboard, and on just about a parallel course. Because I didn't want to stop or slow down (I was doing an average of 13 knots) to do my normal manual targeting with Hitman's excellent Kriegsmarine whiz-wheel, or to use my Pickett linear slide rule, this is what I did: I had the watch officer give me the range and bearing to the contact, and I started the stop watch. I then drew that observation on a piece of graph paper, using a ruler and a protractor. After 3 minutes and 15 seconds, I did the same thing. I then had his course, speed, AOB, and distance. I plotted the contacts out, adjusted my course to be exactly parallel to his course, and fired a bow tube when the target was at a bearing of 89 degrees, and my stern tube (I don't do Type IX's) once he was at 91 degrees. He went down pretty quickly, and since this happen in the Minch, I keep going at all ahead full. My point is that actually plotting it out on paper is a fun and tactile way to experience manual targeting, and can be a useful check against using a whiz-wheel or one of the other methods of manual targeting. I used a cheap protractor and ruler that were made for kids. You don't need to use a maneuvering board either. In fact, for a short interval like 3:15 a regular piece of graph paper works fine. I figured out later on that I COULD have used the whiz-wheel, at least to get target speed. When I worked it out later on the wheel, I got a result of 6.5 knots. Target speed was actually 6 knots, and I was doing an 'average' of 13 knots (probably more like 12.5 knots) because of rough weather. I would have just subtracted the result from my speed, giving target speed. ** I like patrolling the Minch. You get the merchant traffic, but it doesn't seem like you get as many ASW patrols as the Channel or the Irish Sea. __________________ The U-Boat Commander of Love

07-21-07, 08:24 PM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	I have tried it that way - it was fun. but a nice way to eat up paper. If you want - go to the store and buy a large sketch book of graph paper. on a similar note i have given much consideration to printing out a large version of the SH3 map on many 8.5 X 11 inch pages. taping them all together into charts about 16X22 inches and doing manual navigation this way... talk about a challenge I have the proper plotting tools to use... just no life size tangible charts __________________

07-22-07, 01:21 PM	#4
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i suppose... but aeronautical charts run about 10 bucks a piece... i would hate to think what nautical charts cost, besides i live about 200 miles away from the nearest oceanside marina __________________

07-22-07, 08:57 PM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	yeah i have enough of them laying around to wall paper my office lol... in fact in my last appartment i had an entire wall of Texas Oklahoma Arkansas and Louisiana. just the thing about sea charts is that they are harder for me to get my hands on __________________

07-23-07, 02:39 AM	#8
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Why not doing it simply anywhere on the map screen ? you have all the tools and you can erase it after... __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander

07-22-07, 08:43 PM	#5
Kunsa Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	there is a way you could do it. open the .raw format maps in a picture editor, zoom in to the desired level and cut and paste that portion into a new picture and print it. this way you could create as many different region maps as you like and if they are saved you can print them again whenver you want. raw format pictures are greyscale pictures with a set width and height(just in case your editor needs raw type info) width and height are in the name of the maps.

07-23-07, 01:19 PM	#10
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	I would think that in reality the nav plotting was done more often on sea maps than on pieces of paper... As far as attack is concerned, from my readings I have the feeling they didn't do any plotting at all... __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander

07-23-07, 01:19 PM	#11
XLjedi Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 1,243 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 8	Why don't you take a snapshot or two of your graph paper plots and post em so people can see what you're doing? __________________

07-23-07, 01:32 PM	#13
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	May be you're right, I never had the chance to read real patrol reports... __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander