@ Skybird - opposite of Blitzkrieg

[Heibges]

Hi Skybird,

I'm trying to remember the German phrase for the opposite of Blitzkrieg.

If I remember blitzkrieg is "rapid manuever for the purpose of seizing key terrain".

But I can't remember the German phrase for "rapid maneuver for the purpose of destroying troops."

Any ideas?

[TteFAboB]

Rambokrieg? Rushkrieg? Zergrush?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Heibges

Hi Skybird,

I'm trying to remember the German phrase for the opposite of Blitzkrieg.

If I remember blitzkrieg is "rapid manuever for the purpose of seizing key terrain".

But I can't remember the German phrase for "rapid maneuver for the purpose of destroying troops."

Any ideas?

Sorry, no idea. Can't remember that we have a special phrase for that kind of warfare you are describing. I would have listed both your categories under "Blitzkrieg". I do not see you two categories as opposites, btw.

Only seek&destroy comes to my mind. But obviously, that is not German, and means something slightly different.

A separate phrase I know is "Grabenkrieg", which translates into "trench warfare".

The German word for "war" is "Krieg", which in ancient German (Althochdeutsch) was "Chreg", and that meant "obstinacy" (Hartnäckigkeit).

Is there an English word for what you mean?

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sorry, no idea. Can't remember that we have a special phrase for that kind of warfare you are describing. I would have listed both your categories under "Blitzkrieg".

Only seek&destroy comes to my mind. But obviously, that is not German, and means something slightly different.

A separate phrase I know is "Grabenkrieg", which translates into "trench warfare".

The German word for "war" is "Krieg", which in ancient German (Althochdeutsch) was "Chreg", and that meant "obstinacy" (Hartnäckigkeit).

Is there an English word for what you mean?

No, it's impossible to express as a single word in English. I remember it in terms of the Battle of Kiev.

I think in German it might start out "verr....or vern...or verrn".

Anyway, basically the author's point was that the German Army was practicing "ver....." in reducing Kiev, when they should have been practicing Blitzkrieg, driving towards Moscow.

The term I am trying to think of far predates blitzkrieg, and I think may have started in the Franco-Prussian War.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Heibges

No, it's impossible to express as a single word in English. I remember it in terms of the Battle of Kiev.

I think in German it might start out "verr....or vern...or verrn".

Anyway, basically the author's point was that the German Army was practicing "ver....." in reducing Kiev, when they should have been practicing Blitzkrieg, driving towards Moscow.

The term I am trying to think of far predates blitzkrieg, and I think may have started in the Franco-Prussian War.

Sounds like attrition to me. Is there a German word for that?

[Lurchi]

Originally Posted by Heibges

No, it's impossible to express as a single word in English. I remember it in terms of the Battle of Kiev.

I think in German it might start out "verr....or vern...or verrn".

Vernichten?
Vernichtungsschlacht?

The most common german description for the Battle of Kiev is "Kesselschlacht". This term was used when a complete encirclement was achieved and total annihilation (=Vernichtung) of the surrounded enemy forces became the goal.

During Barbarossa the Central german army group disbanded the Blizkrieg strategy (=continue the drive towards Moscow) for some time in favour of the Kiev Kesselschlacht. Hitler ordered this change in strategy because he was afraid of this massive enemy troop concentration behind the german front and decided to annihilate those. Most front commanders, like Guderian were against this strategy change because they considered this change as a waste of time and resources.


Attrition = Abnutzung

[Heibges]

Vernichtungsschlacht

Luchi you are my new hero.

I am almost 100% sure that is the term I was looking for.

Thank you very much.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by fatty

Sounds like attrition to me. Is there a German word for that?

War of attrition: Abnutzungskrieg. It means a long conflict where nobody can gain the upper hand but both sides are loosing blood and more and more of it. Prime example: the "Materialschlachten" of WWI.

[Skybird]

Yes, Vernichtungsschlacht. But it is no real category of war theory, I think, for it is too wide and unprecise in it's meaning: every war is about destruction of the enemy, annihilation of any oppositon standing in the way of one's own goials. Whereas "Kesselschlacht" has a clear definition that describes the tactical situation of hostile forces completly surrounded and isolated and being battered until they are surrendering or are annihilated.

Another word(s) for it may be the United Nations.

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, Vernichtungsschlacht. But it is no real category of war theory, I think, for it is too wide and unprecise in it's meaning: every war is about destruction of the enemy, annihilation of any oppositon standing in the way of one's own goials. Whereas "Kesselschlacht" has a clear definition that describes the tactical situation of hostile forces completly surrounded and isolated and being battered until they are surrendering or are annihilated.

The author of the book I saw it in could very well have been confused. I can't even remember the book or the author, just the word.

[AntEater]

Maybe it has allready been answered, but I'd say "Vernichtungskrieg" (war of anihilation).
But I am not sure wether this term is really contemporary, meaning actually used during WW2 or having been invented after WW2 to describe the eastern front.
Regarding US WW2 strategy, the term "Abnutzungskrieg" was used (war of attrition) while soldiers called it "der Krieg des reichen Mannes" (rich man's way of war).