Realism questions

B.N.R.T. · 12-23-10, 08:05 AM

Hello, fellow kaleuns!

I have returned to SHIII after a long time and really enjoying it again.

Currently, I'm on my first patrol in July 1940 and on the way back home after a Destroyer wrecked my hydrophone with DC's. Quite a nerve-wracking experience, I can tell you. Still one torpedo left, but there's very stormy weather, so we'll see if I can find some target on the way back.

Anyhoo, after my first patrol, I want to tinker with some additional mods. Currently I have the latest GWX and SH3C, but I have some questions about additional mods:

1. I currently have integrated orders on, but I'd like to try Hitman's Optics mod, because the stadimeter is uselless at long (8000m+) ranges. I know it conflicts with integrated orders, but I'm not quite sure what I'll lose if I turn IO off. Could anyone enlighten me?

2. I don't like the current sound of the DC's, with the rattling. Are there any recommended extra sounds or sound packs for GWX?

3. What is the most realistic repair times mod? Or is GWX already realistic and did I just suffer minor damage (I think the flooding was stopped in about 5 minutes)?

4. Does anyone know of any quality mods or extra's that are not standard included in GWX?

And next some more questions:

5. I am currently keeping a log book, in a real hard cover notebook, in semi-authentic KTB format. It's quite dry (place, weather, events) but would people be interested in me typing it out and posting it somewhere online? Personally I find it really interesting to read the real KTBs and accounts of people over here.

6. Nah...forget about 6.

7. The grid squares..aren't square at all. Does that have to do with the projection of the SH3 map?

8. And finally a historical question. What maintenance was needed on a U-boat? Other than repairing malfunctions etc., what general maintenance was performed? In KTB's there are daily mentions of dive tests, which I plan to include in my own patrols, and torpedo maintenance. I guess this was done submerged in heavy weather, as the torpedoes would have to be loaded out/in the tubes. Am I right in thinking this? Also, what was needed to make a torpedo firing ready? In the game you can immediatly fire a torpedo, but I think I read something about warming them up first. How long did this take?

ETA: 9. How does the uncontrollable-crash-dive-bug work exactly? I don't always have the room to submerge to the standard 80m. Is there a way to change that?

So, there's my questions for now. I'm sorry if there seem to be a bit many, but from what I remember this is a very friendly forum, with very much expertise and knowledge. If you could answer just one or two questions, it would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

BNRT

Sailor Steve · 12-23-10, 12:21 PM

Wow! You're in Arnhem! There's some history there.

I can't help with all your questions, but I'll try to tackle a couple of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.N.R.T.

3. What is the most realistic repair times mod? Or is GWX already realistic and did I just suffer minor damage (I think the flooding was stopped in about 5 minutes)?

Unfortunately there is no easy answer. No, GWX doesn't make the repair times realistic. Five minutes flooding is good, but most mechanical repairs still take seconds rather than hours. There have been a couple of popular mods that lengthen repair times, but so far the main method has been to reduce the efficiency of the crew, which can cause problems elsewhere. The new one by h.sie http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174225 is showing promise.

Quote:

4. Does anyone know of any quality mods or extra's that are not standard included in GWX?

Rather than give you the usual list of the mods I'm running, I'll refer you to this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=170090

Quote:

5. I am currently keeping a log book, in a real hard cover notebook, in semi-authentic KTB format. It's quite dry (place, weather, events) but would people be interested in me typing it out and posting it somewhere online? Personally I find it really interesting to read the real KTBs and accounts of people over here.

I've done that, and got a mixed reception. Some folks prefer an exciting account with lots of pictures. I've always like reading a report that read like the real one. I tend to write mine out in SH3 Commander and then put up the log it generates in the game itself.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1880

Quote:

6. Nah...forget about 6.

Forget about what? I already forgot.

Quote:

7. The grid squares..aren't square at all. Does that have to do with the projection of the SH3 map?

Exactly. Any flat projection by nature has to distort more the further you get from the center. You'll notice that the squares nearest the equator are square, or very close to it.

Quote:

ETA: 9. How does the uncontrollable-crash-dive-bug work exactly? I don't always have the room to submerge to the standard 80m. Is there a way to change that?

In real life, when a boat dives the main ballast tanks are partly flooded and the boat dives slowly. In a crash dive they are fully flooded to get the boat down quicker, but this means that it's going to take time to pump them out and level off.

The "uncontrollable dive bug" is actually a problem with save games. If you save submerged (and sometimes surfaced in a storm) sometimes when you reload your boat will be on a death-ride to the bottom. You will die, period, and there is no solution for it. From my experience it seems to be partly related to pushing the CPU too far. When I stopped using certain mods the problem disappeared - so far. Also my system is older and limited, so my experience is my own and not to be taken as significant to anyone else.

B.N.R.T. · 12-23-10, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Wow! You're in Arnhem! There's some history there.

I doubt any U-boats have been this far out, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The "uncontrollable dive bug" is actually a problem with save games. If you save submerged (and sometimes surfaced in a storm) sometimes when you reload your boat will be on a death-ride to the bottom. You will die, period, and there is no solution for it. From my experience it seems to be partly related to pushing the CPU too far. When I stopped using certain mods the problem disappeared - so far. Also my system is older and limited, so my experience is my own and not to be taken as significant to anyone else.

I actually meant the bug where you can't enter a new depth when/after/during/something crash-diving. At least, that is how I understood it at the time.

12-23-10, 01:21 PM

Yes, Changeing the depth during a Crash Dive can cause problems.
I've yet to do this with the Newest SHIII release that has no StarForce.
The StarForce version and the Reloaded Hack caused some problems
that don't seem to be in the StarForce free version.
If the problems are still there?
They seem less frequent anyway.

K-61 · 12-23-10, 03:28 PM

8: Electric torpedoes required maintenance on the batteries. If in the tubes they would be hauled out every so often and connected to a charger. Torpedoes stored externally required more extensive service; the batteries would have to be warmed and charged, the gyroscopes tuned. In the game we can use an externally stored torpedo immediately. This is unrealistic; when I reload an external I give it several hours to simulate maintenance time. I think steam torpedoes were also serviced every so many days to make sure the compressed air flasks were topped up.

B.N.R.T. · 12-29-10, 06:54 AM

Thanks for all the answers thus far!

I finished my first patrol (July 1940) with about 20000 GRT, no crew lost and some damage to the bow tubes. For the second patrol I loaded Hitman's optics and everything seems to be working well. I am 'currently' on my way to intercept an unescorted convoy, while transferring to Lorient, so that will bring in some nice tonnage.

I have also implemented regular dive tests and torpedo maintainance. Diving for the latter when weather dictates. I also make a mental note to "tell my crew to make the tubes ready to fire" and too note which eels have which pistols. All in the name of realism!

One more question has propped up, though. I understand that they used to estimate distances when surfaced by seaman's eye and by the amount the ship filled the UZO or binocular field of view. As Hitman's Optics mod does not have mils in the UZO or binoculars, can you estimate distances based on length of ship and % of view covered? With some thinking I can probably work it out myself, using maths, but if anyone has a nice chart ready to use, it would be much appreciated. In any case, the UZO magnification is 7x, while the binoculars magnification is 10x, right?

Again, thank you very much for your replies!

ETA: I probably also need field of view numbers for both UZO and binoculars.

Tessa · 12-29-10, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.N.R.T.

1. I currently have integrated orders on, but I'd like to try Hitman's Optics mod, because the stadimeter is uselless at long (8000m+) ranges. I know it conflicts with integrated orders, but I'm not quite sure what I'll lose if I turn IO off. Could anyone enlighten me?

Once I got really familiar with the hotkeys and remapped any that were awkward I've never felt the need for integrated orders. Since many mods are incompatible with them or break them I'd recommend you think about moving away from them and let a good GUI handle everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.N.R.T.

3. What is the most realistic repair times mod? Or is GWX already realistic and did I just suffer minor damage (I think the flooding was stopped in about 5 minutes)?

h.sie's new realistic repair times is very cool and does a lot more than just lengthen the repair times. Minor/basic repairs now take hours in stead of minutes; there's no more instant fixing as well. Flooding can become a serious problem as water continues to come in while you are doing repairs. A good repair team is now an enormously valuable commodity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.N.R.T.

8. And finally a historical question. What maintenance was needed on a U-boat? Other than repairing malfunctions etc., what general maintenance was performed? In KTB's there are daily mentions of dive tests, which I plan to include in my own patrols, and torpedo maintenance. I guess this was done submerged in heavy weather, as the torpedoes would have to be loaded out/in the tubes. Am I right in thinking this? Also, what was needed to make a torpedo firing ready? In the game you can immediatly fire a torpedo, but I think I read something about warming them up first. How long did this take?

Torpedoes while at sea were taken out the their tubes at least once a day, usually twice when persmissible. This had numerous reasons and kept the tubes clean and any problems could be repaired before problems could start to creep up on a lazy crew.

Arnold · 12-29-10, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.N.R.T.

One more question has propped up, though. I understand that they used to estimate distances when surfaced by seaman's eye and by the amount the ship filled the UZO or binocular field of view. As Hitman's Optics mod does not have mils in the UZO or binoculars, can you estimate distances based on length of ship and % of view covered? With some thinking I can probably work it out myself, using maths, but if anyone has a nice chart ready to use, it would be much appreciated. In any case, the UZO magnification is 7x, while the binoculars magnification is 10x, right?

Again, thank you very much for your replies!

ETA: I probably also need field of view numbers for both UZO and binoculars.

^
I read another thread where you could estimate the distance while in 6X for a 150 meter long ship.
- If the ship covers the whole lens, the ship is 1,100 meters distant.
- If half of the lens (from the crosshair to the edge of the lens)
is covered, the ship is 2,200 meters distant.
- If 1/4 of the lens is covered, the ship is at 4,400 meters distant.

Tessa · 12-30-10, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold

^
I read another thread where you could estimate the distance while in 6X for a 150 meter long ship.
- If the ship covers the whole lens, the ship is 1,100 meters distant.
- If half of the lens (from the crosshair to the edge of the lens)
is covered, the ship is 2,200 meters distant.
- If 1/4 of the lens is covered, the ship is at 4,400 meters distant.

If you watch in Das Boot you'll notice that anytime the KapLt. or 1WO is aiming through the periscope or UZO they were able to estimate the range without trigonometry. The relative size of the ship when measured against the hash marks in the scope gave them plenty of information for getting good distance estimates. This thread has some excellent examples of the tools they used to measure the distances, and how they were able to figure them out quickly in their heads.

Unless you're aiming a very long shot that is close to or would be the max range of the torpedo you are firing getting precise distances isn't much of an issue.

Gargamel · 12-30-10, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessa

Unless you're aiming a very long shot that is close to or would be the max range of the torpedo you are firing getting precise distances isn't much of an issue.

And the only reason I can think of doing that would be as a desperation shot, as the range to the target is not the same as the run distance for the torp. I've had shots that were in range, but they ran out of range as the target ran away from me. LIke when your trying to hit a high speed warship.

Tessa · 12-30-10, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel

And the only reason I can think of doing that would be as a desperation shot, as the range to the target is not the same as the run distance for the torp. I've had shots that were in range, but they ran out of range as the target ran away from me. LIke when your trying to hit a high speed warship.

Fast moving single ships can be just as difficult, having to run at flank for a prolonged period to catch up in order to get a decent shot lined up wasn't unheard of. Extreme range shots were a hail Mary, most missed but there were a few that managed to hit and bag an extra 8000 tons or so with their last torpedo. Better to try and fail, than not try at all when you're on the way home or its your last eel.

Gargamel · 12-30-10, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessa

Fast moving single ships can be just as difficult, having to run at flank for a prolonged period to catch up in order to get a decent shot lined up wasn't unheard of. Extreme range shots were a hail Mary, most missed but there were a few that managed to hit and bag an extra 8000 tons or so with their last torpedo. Better to try and fail, than not try at all when you're on the way home or its your last eel.

Hear Hear! Not saying you shouldnt take those shots, just that if the opportunity to wait and take a better shot exists, then do that.

B.N.R.T. · 12-30-10, 11:14 AM

Knowing the distance can also be useful to time attacks on different targets. Say you see two steamers in different rows of a convoy; if you know the distance between the two, you can calculate (I have a pre-made table listing all distances and torpedo run times) the difference in time you need to fire them. (If that makes sense.)

BUT! I got an idea yesterday. If you know the length of a ship and you know or can find out the number of degrees it spans in you UZO/periscope, the distance is a relatively simple calculation. I could make a table using different lengths and number of degrees. Question is: would this work? It would be less accurate at AoB other than 90* and at high speeds of the target, but it would give a good estimate.

And yes, I realise I could/should ask the 1WO the range to target, but as Kaleun, I should be able to handle every job myself.

Gargamel · 12-30-10, 02:11 PM

Any chance of posting up your run time table?

TarJak · 12-30-10, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.N.R.T.

5. I am currently keeping a log book, in a real hard cover notebook, in semi-authentic KTB format. It's quite dry (place, weather, events) but would people be interested in me typing it out and posting it somewhere online? Personally I find it really interesting to read the real KTBs and accounts of people over here.

Yes. I did a couple which are at my Funkraum linked from my sig.

Quote:

8. And finally a historical question. What maintenance was needed on a U-boat? Other than repairing malfunctions etc., what general maintenance was performed? In KTB's there are daily mentions of dive tests, which I plan to include in my own patrols, and torpedo maintenance. I guess this was done submerged in heavy weather, as the torpedoes would have to be loaded out/in the tubes. Am I right in thinking this? Also, what was needed to make a torpedo firing ready? In the game you can immediatly fire a torpedo, but I think I read something about warming them up first. How long did this take?

There is always something to clean, check, test, strip down and put back together on any boat. Depending on the situation u-boats were much the same.

My understanding of heating up torpedos referred to the G7e class of electric propulsion torpedoes which needed to be heated to 30 °C before firing to achieve maximum speed and range. Apparently the electric motors and the lead acid batteries in these torps also required constant maintenence to maintain their reliability.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBNotesArmament.htm
http://www.uboataces.com/weapon-torpedo.shtml

I'm unable to find anything that references the time take to pre-heat a torp, but I assume it would vary depending on the ambient temp, whether the battery was still warm from a previous pre-heat etc.

12-23-10, 08:05 AM	#1
B.N.R.T. Seaman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Arnhem, Netherlands Posts: 42 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	Realism questions Hello, fellow kaleuns! I have returned to SHIII after a long time and really enjoying it again. Currently, I'm on my first patrol in July 1940 and on the way back home after a Destroyer wrecked my hydrophone with DC's. Quite a nerve-wracking experience, I can tell you. Still one torpedo left, but there's very stormy weather, so we'll see if I can find some target on the way back. Anyhoo, after my first patrol, I want to tinker with some additional mods. Currently I have the latest GWX and SH3C, but I have some questions about additional mods: 1. I currently have integrated orders on, but I'd like to try Hitman's Optics mod, because the stadimeter is uselless at long (8000m+) ranges. I know it conflicts with integrated orders, but I'm not quite sure what I'll lose if I turn IO off. Could anyone enlighten me? 2. I don't like the current sound of the DC's, with the rattling. Are there any recommended extra sounds or sound packs for GWX? 3. What is the most realistic repair times mod? Or is GWX already realistic and did I just suffer minor damage (I think the flooding was stopped in about 5 minutes)? 4. Does anyone know of any quality mods or extra's that are not standard included in GWX? And next some more questions: 5. I am currently keeping a log book, in a real hard cover notebook, in semi-authentic KTB format. It's quite dry (place, weather, events) but would people be interested in me typing it out and posting it somewhere online? Personally I find it really interesting to read the real KTBs and accounts of people over here. 6. Nah...forget about 6. 7. The grid squares..aren't square at all. Does that have to do with the projection of the SH3 map? 8. And finally a historical question. What maintenance was needed on a U-boat? Other than repairing malfunctions etc., what general maintenance was performed? In KTB's there are daily mentions of dive tests, which I plan to include in my own patrols, and torpedo maintenance. I guess this was done submerged in heavy weather, as the torpedoes would have to be loaded out/in the tubes. Am I right in thinking this? Also, what was needed to make a torpedo firing ready? In the game you can immediatly fire a torpedo, but I think I read something about warming them up first. How long did this take? ETA: 9. How does the uncontrollable-crash-dive-bug work exactly? I don't always have the room to submerge to the standard 80m. Is there a way to change that? So, there's my questions for now. I'm sorry if there seem to be a bit many, but from what I remember this is a very friendly forum, with very much expertise and knowledge. If you could answer just one or two questions, it would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance, BNRT Last edited by B.N.R.T.; 12-23-10 at 09:41 AM.

12-23-10, 03:28 PM	#5
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	8: Electric torpedoes required maintenance on the batteries. If in the tubes they would be hauled out every so often and connected to a charger. Torpedoes stored externally required more extensive service; the batteries would have to be warmed and charged, the gyroscopes tuned. In the game we can use an externally stored torpedo immediately. This is unrealistic; when I reload an external I give it several hours to simulate maintenance time. I think steam torpedoes were also serviced every so many days to make sure the compressed air flasks were topped up. __________________

12-29-10, 06:54 AM	#6
B.N.R.T. Seaman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Arnhem, Netherlands Posts: 42 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all the answers thus far! I finished my first patrol (July 1940) with about 20000 GRT, no crew lost and some damage to the bow tubes. For the second patrol I loaded Hitman's optics and everything seems to be working well. I am 'currently' on my way to intercept an unescorted convoy, while transferring to Lorient, so that will bring in some nice tonnage. I have also implemented regular dive tests and torpedo maintainance. Diving for the latter when weather dictates. I also make a mental note to "tell my crew to make the tubes ready to fire" and too note which eels have which pistols. All in the name of realism! One more question has propped up, though. I understand that they used to estimate distances when surfaced by seaman's eye and by the amount the ship filled the UZO or binocular field of view. As Hitman's Optics mod does not have mils in the UZO or binoculars, can you estimate distances based on length of ship and % of view covered? With some thinking I can probably work it out myself, using maths, but if anyone has a nice chart ready to use, it would be much appreciated. In any case, the UZO magnification is 7x, while the binoculars magnification is 10x, right? Again, thank you very much for your replies! ETA: I probably also need field of view numbers for both UZO and binoculars. Last edited by B.N.R.T.; 12-29-10 at 09:17 AM.

12-30-10, 02:11 PM	#14
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	Any chance of posting up your run time table? __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

12-23-10, 01:21 PM	#4
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Yes, Changeing the depth during a Crash Dive can cause problems. I've yet to do this with the Newest SHIII release that has no StarForce. The StarForce version and the Reloaded Hack caused some problems that don't seem to be in the StarForce free version. If the problems are still there? They seem less frequent anyway.

12-30-10, 11:14 AM	#13
B.N.R.T. Seaman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Arnhem, Netherlands Posts: 42 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	Knowing the distance can also be useful to time attacks on different targets. Say you see two steamers in different rows of a convoy; if you know the distance between the two, you can calculate (I have a pre-made table listing all distances and torpedo run times) the difference in time you need to fire them. (If that makes sense.) BUT! I got an idea yesterday. If you know the length of a ship and you know or can find out the number of degrees it spans in you UZO/periscope, the distance is a relatively simple calculation. I could make a table using different lengths and number of degrees. Question is: would this work? It would be less accurate at AoB other than 90* and at high speeds of the target, but it would give a good estimate. And yes, I realise I could/should ask the 1WO the range to target, but as Kaleun, I should be able to handle every job myself.