"Breaking in" a convoy?

[Kuzz]

Hi everyone

It was a long time since I logged in here but I have recently started playing Silent Hunter again, mostly because of reading the new outstanding Swedish book “Wolves of the Sea” by Michael Tamelander & Jonas Hård af Segerstad. Now I have a question towards you veterans here:

In the book there are several events in where the German U-boats “break in” to a convoy during their nights attack. They approach with decks awash at a cloudy night and sneak into the midst of the convoy, where the stay at the surface and fire off all their torpedoes. As long as no ship blasts into fire, illuminating the scene, they stay at the surface, running at desired speed while reloading their tubes (they are not heard by hydrophone due to the rest of the convoys screws and ASDIC cannot detect them due to them being surfaced). In more than one occasion the U-boat is able to fire off all their torpedoes, sinking more than 5 or 6 ships before slowly moving away, this at the surface as well.

I have tried this in late 41 and early 42 in the game, and while I am doing it submerged, it does work exceptionally well. The destroyers search the perimeter around the convoy and often disappears way behind into the darkness. But does anyone know if this is possible to do decks awash, just as they did in real life? I am running the Grey Wolves Supermod.

A little reminder as well. On the community wiki it says the following about convoy attacks with torpedoes:

Originally Posted by Community Wiki

Try and get right between the columns. This way, you don't need to use any trigonometry and TDC. You can easily estimate the gyro angle and quickly fire off both bow and stern tubes very accurately. Now keep in mind, the destroyers will DEFINITELY know where you are now.

According to my tests, they don’t! And this was a realistic tactic until the invention of the radar.

Regards
Kuzz

[mookiemookie]

I usually set my depth to 7 m and presto! Decks awash, increased stealthiness. I know some people have modded their cfg files so that surface depth *is* decks awash, but I find it easier to just click the depth meter dial when I am in game.

As far as the destroyers go, I've found that even when you're submerged in the middle of a convoy column, they usually do beeline directly to your general position once you're detected. Which is pretty unrealistic as you probably wouldn't have been detected by sound with all those screws around you, but thems the haps.

[Tachyon]

This tactic was adopted in Das Boot (a similar one) , it worked fairly well, until they were spotted by the Destroyer (which was probably because of a full moon).

Moral : Don't try this under a full moon.

[Jimbuna]

Running at 'decks awash' is generally used by people in their gameplay so they can dive quicker when aircraft are spotted. An obvious adittional benefit must be a lower sillouette for ships to spot. When your torpedo impacts on the merchants the initial giveaway to the escorts should probably be from which side of the convoy column you are firing from. This will probably assist them in searching an area they estimate you to be in.

My moral is: SHOOT THEN DIVE !!

[Razman23]

I think the biggest issue is the convoys themselves.

Does SHIII accurately protray them at the correct distances as they would be in RL?

I watched several vids (youtube) of old german propaganda films of the BDU and some shots show the convoy ships more spread out than what you see in SHIII.

Maybe someone can chime in on this since I havent really googled the info right off.

I usually run at PD when I slip into the convoy. I shot all my eels and then drop down deep. I run 90° away from the convoys course and when far enough away, surface, reload the tubes, bring in the eels from the outside, and then set a course to pass and get ahead of the convoy for another attack. With eels provided, it usually makes for about 3-4 attacks in this manner.

Note: Of course, this tatic may have to be changed when GWX is released. :hmm:

[bigboywooly]

In the stock game most convoy spacings were 500\600m
I have upped the spacings in the vast majority of GWX to 1000m so the convoys are spaced better
The upside are that ships have more room to turn so hopefully less chaos in the convoy
The downside is the escorts also have more room between ships to enter the convoy after you

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by Razman23

Does SHIII accurately protray them at the correct distances as they would be in RL?

I watched several vids (youtube) of old german propaganda films of the BDU and some shots show the convoy ships more spread out than what you see in SHIII.

You're correct. SH3 has the convoy ships too packed together. If I remember correctly in GWX the ships are a bit more sread out but still closer than in real life.

EDIT: Sorry BBW I didn't see that you answer that point

Originally Posted by Razman23

Of course, this tatic may have to be changed when GWX is released. :hmm:

The fundamentals no but you will need to be more accurate with your navigation and more alert to the presence of escorts

[K_Sea6]

My thinking was that once torp's started going off in the middle of a convoy at night that the convoy would start firing off ilumination rounds into the air and using spot lights to sweep the area so it would'nt make since to me to stay on the surface unless you wanted to be detected.

Now I know the star clusters are RL and not in game so you don't have to worry about those so much (would be cool if they could be modded) but if you use GW as I do I do know they use spotlights to sweep back and forth and if you are unfortunate enough to get caught in a beam your busted!

Just my 2
K

[Tachyon]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Running at 'decks awash' is generally used by people in their gameplay so they can dive quicker when aircraft are spotted. An obvious adittional benefit must be a lower sillouette for ships to spot. When your torpedo impacts on the merchants the initial giveaway to the escorts should probably be from which side of the convoy column you are firing from. This will probably assist them in searching an area they estimate you to be in.

My moral is: SHOOT THEN DIVE !!

After the way you gatecrashed on Churchill's birthday and stole his cigar, I doubt you have any morals left :rotfl:

[melnibonian]

Usually I try to position myself inside the convoy so I can use the aft tubes as well. I tend to move up and down the lines in order to cause more chaos. Once my torpedoes are fired I usually dive deep to reload (this depends on the year and the escorts) only to came up again to fire some more.

[Kuzz]

First off, thanks for all the replies!

As far as the destroyers go, I've found that even when you're submerged in the middle of a convoy column, they usually do beeline directly to your general position once you're detected. Which is pretty unrealistic as you probably wouldn't have been detected by sound with all those screws around you, but thems the haps.

Hmm, what year are you playing? I'm in an IXC boat in early 42 and I have already made three attacks in my described fashion. As soon as I come in under the first merchant I order full ahead and not once have the escorts turned on my position. As soon as my eels starts going off the whole convoy starts zigzagging... but the escorts starts to do a flank search as well as position a few DD's astern of the convoy. From what I have read, this is exactly the mistake the brits did in the early war days before they discovered the Uboats special tactic.

I usually stay at convoy speed in the mid lane and reload my tubes. After all internal reloads are exhausted I do a 90 turn and track the convoy at a distance of about 25 kilometers. It only takes two attacks in order to exhaust the IXCs eel storage in this way, and it really deadly.

Edit: And oh yes, running with decks awash seems rather risky... the ships usually light up as soon as my first torp hits, and searchlights travel around the conoy.

[TarJak]

I just finished reading a book (I won't tell you the name because I'm going to spoil the main plotline here), about an English officer trying to get to the bottom of hwo the Germans are getting inside the convoys.

The premise the author proposed was that the Germans dry chartered and crewed a number of Swedish ships, which then joined the convoys and during the course of the voyage, the "Swedish" ships would drop back from the convoy claiming engine trouble, rendezvous with a Uboat, and lead it back to the convoy providing radar and ASDIC cover until it rejoined the convoy. (Remember most convoys ran at aroun 6kt which is not much faster than a brisk walking pace).

Not badly written but I thought it was a fairly bizarre plot and I guess that spoiled the experience for me.

Otherwise it does shed some interesting light on some aspects of the Battle of the Atlantic that I was not conversant with prior to reading it.

[Corsair]

Originally Posted by K_Sea6

My thinking was that once torp's started going off in the middle of a convoy at night that the convoy would start firing off ilumination rounds into the air and using spot lights to sweep the area so it would'nt make since to me to stay on the surface unless you wanted to be detected.

Now I know the star clusters are RL and not in game so you don't have to worry about those so much (would be cool if they could be modded) but if you use GW as I do I do know they use spotlights to sweep back and forth and if you are unfortunate enough to get caught in a beam your busted!

Just my 2
K

Am playing NYGM at the moment and DDs often use starshells at night. Would be surprising they never do in GW ?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Corsair

Am playing NYGM at the moment and DDs often use starshells at night. Would be surprising they never do in GW ?

I beg to differ sir and they also use them in GWX

[bigboywooly]

They used them in GW too