The raid on Scapa Flow. Looking for info.

Von Due · 03-01-17, 02:38 PM

I am looking through accounts, reports, moves, docus etc on Prien's raid on Scapa Flow and one thing sticks out as missing:

The planning phase.

Now, it is my understanding that there was an extreme level of secrecy surrounding the planning, with most of the admiralty unaware of the plans, only a handful of intelligence officers and operatives, together with Dönitz and a very few selected lot in the know. No submariners, including Prien, had any idea.

As such, there is no surprise that little is known about the planning phase. I don't know what happened to the documents after the raid, if they were destroyed or kept secret, or if they were found after the war, or if Dönitz himself told the story after the war.

The "memoirs" of Prien are of little interest as they aren't the actual story, not even penned by Prien but ghost writers paid by the Party. There is one German feature film from the 50's but the little I have seen from it, it is not exactly a docu drama to say the least. Other docus focus pretty much solely on the raid itself, and the fate of the boys and men onboard Royal Oak. Again, nothing on the actual planning.

So, I'll ask here seeing we have a crowd of people with perhaps an above average interest in naval history: Have you any links or tips to docus or accounts on the planning, from intelligence gathering to the details of the plan?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I have found this http://www.u47.org/english/u47_sca.asp which includes some insight at least.

Kapitan · 03-01-17, 04:42 PM

Planning here's a good tip

Contact the makers of the admiralty charts you will find what they release to you is very shocking, when i worked at sea i had detailed charts of Faslane Porstmouth and Devenport all are used by the RN and Commercial traffic, you can even buy charts of Norfolk harbour Virginia home to the carriers, Kings Bay Georgia all are even today commercially available.

So its likely Prien and the rest of the mob would have had these charts because even back in the early 1900's the were sold commercially all you needed was a shell company based no where near Germany like say Brazil and go through it that way.

Prien would have known the depth tides the lot so he would have gone ahead with at least half an idea.

Von Due · 03-01-17, 04:59 PM

Thanks. That Prien had a good idea once he was asked to do it, there is no doubt but according to Prien, he and the other officers had no idea why they were ordered to go see Dönitz. Only when he was filled in, did he have a good idea. They feared they had gotten themselves into trouble and well, they were partially right

I am particularly interested in the information gathering and how it was discussed how to pull this off.

Havan_IronOak · 04-01-17, 11:28 AM

I know far less about the raid than you all but thought I'd mention this documentary which is available on You-tube for those that that don't know a LOT about the raid.

03-01-17, 02:38 PM	#1
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,690 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	The raid on Scapa Flow. Looking for info. I am looking through accounts, reports, moves, docus etc on Prien's raid on Scapa Flow and one thing sticks out as missing: The planning phase. Now, it is my understanding that there was an extreme level of secrecy surrounding the planning, with most of the admiralty unaware of the plans, only a handful of intelligence officers and operatives, together with Dönitz and a very few selected lot in the know. No submariners, including Prien, had any idea. As such, there is no surprise that little is known about the planning phase. I don't know what happened to the documents after the raid, if they were destroyed or kept secret, or if they were found after the war, or if Dönitz himself told the story after the war. The "memoirs" of Prien are of little interest as they aren't the actual story, not even penned by Prien but ghost writers paid by the Party. There is one German feature film from the 50's but the little I have seen from it, it is not exactly a docu drama to say the least. Other docus focus pretty much solely on the raid itself, and the fate of the boys and men onboard Royal Oak. Again, nothing on the actual planning. So, I'll ask here seeing we have a crowd of people with perhaps an above average interest in naval history: Have you any links or tips to docus or accounts on the planning, from intelligence gathering to the details of the plan? EDIT: Forgot to mention, I have found this http://www.u47.org/english/u47_sca.asp which includes some insight at least. Last edited by Von Due; 03-01-17 at 02:46 PM.

03-01-17, 04:42 PM	#2
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	Planning here's a good tip Contact the makers of the admiralty charts you will find what they release to you is very shocking, when i worked at sea i had detailed charts of Faslane Porstmouth and Devenport all are used by the RN and Commercial traffic, you can even buy charts of Norfolk harbour Virginia home to the carriers, Kings Bay Georgia all are even today commercially available. So its likely Prien and the rest of the mob would have had these charts because even back in the early 1900's the were sold commercially all you needed was a shell company based no where near Germany like say Brazil and go through it that way. Prien would have known the depth tides the lot so he would have gone ahead with at least half an idea. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

04-01-17, 11:28 AM	#4
Havan_IronOak Navy Dude Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 175 Downloads: 233 Uploads: 0	A Reasonably good documentary on the raid I know far less about the raid than you all but thought I'd mention this documentary which is available on You-tube for those that that don't know a LOT about the raid. __________________ If I can't be a good example, I'll be a glaring warning! AMD Ryzen 7 2700X Eight-Core Processor, 3700 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s) Windows 10 Home Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB NVidia RTX2070 16 Gig

03-01-17, 04:59 PM	#3
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,690 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Thanks. That Prien had a good idea once he was asked to do it, there is no doubt but according to Prien, he and the other officers had no idea why they were ordered to go see Dönitz. Only when he was filled in, did he have a good idea. They feared they had gotten themselves into trouble and well, they were partially right I am particularly interested in the information gathering and how it was discussed how to pull this off.