Intercepting targets.....again I'm sure!!!

Alex9066 · 05-29-14, 03:00 PM

Hi all.

Ok, been playing Sh3 for a couple of weeks now and love everything about it. Not got any of the mods yet but will be looking into it very soon.

On to my question...and please be gentle with me as I'm sure it's been covered before but just not sure where to find it. I'm playing the career mode and am getting up to the patrol area and searching about for targets. All of a sudden the SO will perk up saying he's found a target. Upon looking at the map, all I can see is a black line with no visible ship. They report something like this: course ese moving away long range. Could someone please elaborate or point me in the right direction as to how I can track the target from the black line and move in for the kill please.

Thanks in advance.

Alex.

u crank · 05-29-14, 03:45 PM

Hey Alex. The black line represents the direction of the contact. If it is at long range you wont be able to see it. Put a mark on the map at the end of the line and observe it for a while and then put another mark at the end of the line. This will give you a general idea of the target's direction and range. Unless he is moving almost directly toward your position, you will probably have to surface and get in a better position. Plot a course to get around in front of him, submerge and wait for him to get in range. You may have to do this more than once to get in a good attacking position.

Of course this line on the map is an in game thing. In real life the hydrophone operator would give the captain the targets position, speed and direction. That is what the black line represents.

Hope this helps. Good hunting and before Jimbuna gets here, Be More Agressive.

Jimbuna · 05-29-14, 03:58 PM

^ LOL + one

for the advice

Ifernat · 05-29-14, 07:05 PM

Just to echo a few things that have already been said. Assuming you have a decent Hydrophone operator you'll pick up contacts well outside visual range. With experienced operators you'll get contacts reliably up to 20km out. Up to 25 if the target is extra noisy and in good conditions.

Visual range even with mods is going is usually 5-10km in average conditions. So the hydrophone is usually more efficient in finding contacts. Just remember that the target has to be actively underway to find it. I have popped up dangerously close to a parked destroyer because the hydrophone scope was clear and I got sloppy in forgetting to do a periscope check. Also your target has to be in the water. Land gun emplacements and airplanes are other things that need to be checked for visually.

Also, you can actually hear ships out to about 35 km even though they won't be confirmed as contacts until they get closer (and their engine/screw noise is louder). You can draw a line out on that bearing and then check again in a few moments to get an idea of the direction of travel.

Checking every 2 hours or so yourself on the hydrophone can add micromanagement but will get you the occasional contact that the AI hydrophone operator would miss.

Pisces · 05-30-14, 05:49 AM

Plotting the faint endpoints of the sonar line is a good way to start as a beginner. Or as an experienced player, ... do whatever you like.

It's just not quite realistic to get a range measurement from the hydrophone. As sound volume changes are very unreliable to base a distance on. But the same might be said of the accuracy of a hydrophone bearing drawn on the map. Real life equipment might not have given such precise directions. If you measure the bearing with the hydrophone controls yourself then it becomes much more believable it could have been used. The math/geometry is certainly not rocket science.

An advanced method is to use what is known as the 4-bearing method. There are actually some variations of this method. But all use no range information from the hydrophone operator, only bearings (directions) at regular time intervals. Using that, and a bit of geometry magic (and a bit of patience), you can figure out what his rough course is. And if you displace your uboat you can also find his position/range and speed.

This video (windows media file) inside a rar-archive explains how to do it while being stationary for the first 3 bearings. From those 3 you predict graphically where the 4th bearing would come from after the next interval. But instead of staying where you are, you move a way to get a different vantage point and listen where the sound comes from then. The intersection of the predicted 4th bearing, and the real (displaced) 4th bearing is where he is really at. So you have his position now. As you knew what his approximate course was, you can trace his movement back across the earlier bearings. And from those distances in between them you can calculate the time it took him to cross those lengths. From that you now have speed also.

Kuikeg invented a different method (actually 2 variations) to do this while moving all the time. This might be necessary for your boat to keep depth, or whatever the tactical situation demands.

Thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=179137

Version 1:
http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/four_bearings_method.pdf

Version 2:
http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/the_f...%20Kuikueg.pdf

Makman made this video tutorial:

Stoianm made this tutorial: (in SH5, but is no different in SH3, same map tools)

maillemaker · 05-30-14, 08:51 AM

Yup, as was stated, with stock SH3 and map contacts on the sonar is basically an unreaslistic underwater radar system.

The lines radiating out from your position indicate the direction to the contact and the position is at the end of the line.

As I recall, warships have red lines and merchants have black? It's been a long time since I played stock.

When you get the radar detectors, they work the same way. In fact, radar detections function much, much, much better than your own radar. They have a longer range and don't give away your position.

The only time you will get an icon on the map representing a contact is when you see it or your crew sees it. Sometimes you can see it through the periscope but it won't show on the map. Press L to lock to it and it will stay on the map for a few seconds. You can actually lock to targets you can't actually see due to weather and then go see them on the map. That's a cheat, of course.

Steve

05-29-14, 03:00 PM	#1
Alex9066 Nub Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 3 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Intercepting targets.....again I'm sure!!! Hi all. Ok, been playing Sh3 for a couple of weeks now and love everything about it. Not got any of the mods yet but will be looking into it very soon. On to my question...and please be gentle with me as I'm sure it's been covered before but just not sure where to find it. I'm playing the career mode and am getting up to the patrol area and searching about for targets. All of a sudden the SO will perk up saying he's found a target. Upon looking at the map, all I can see is a black line with no visible ship. They report something like this: course ese moving away long range. Could someone please elaborate or point me in the right direction as to how I can track the target from the black line and move in for the kill please. Thanks in advance. Alex.

05-29-14, 03:45 PM	#2
u crank Old enough to know better Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 11,744 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	Hey Alex. The black line represents the direction of the contact. If it is at long range you wont be able to see it. Put a mark on the map at the end of the line and observe it for a while and then put another mark at the end of the line. This will give you a general idea of the target's direction and range. Unless he is moving almost directly toward your position, you will probably have to surface and get in a better position. Plot a course to get around in front of him, submerge and wait for him to get in range. You may have to do this more than once to get in a good attacking position. Of course this line on the map is an in game thing. In real life the hydrophone operator would give the captain the targets position, speed and direction. That is what the black line represents. Hope this helps. Good hunting and before Jimbuna gets here, Be More Agressive. __________________ “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

05-29-14, 03:58 PM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ LOL + one for the advice __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

05-29-14, 07:05 PM	#4
Ifernat Watch Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 20 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Just to echo a few things that have already been said. Assuming you have a decent Hydrophone operator you'll pick up contacts well outside visual range. With experienced operators you'll get contacts reliably up to 20km out. Up to 25 if the target is extra noisy and in good conditions. Visual range even with mods is going is usually 5-10km in average conditions. So the hydrophone is usually more efficient in finding contacts. Just remember that the target has to be actively underway to find it. I have popped up dangerously close to a parked destroyer because the hydrophone scope was clear and I got sloppy in forgetting to do a periscope check. Also your target has to be in the water. Land gun emplacements and airplanes are other things that need to be checked for visually. Also, you can actually hear ships out to about 35 km even though they won't be confirmed as contacts until they get closer (and their engine/screw noise is louder). You can draw a line out on that bearing and then check again in a few moments to get an idea of the direction of travel. Checking every 2 hours or so yourself on the hydrophone can add micromanagement but will get you the occasional contact that the AI hydrophone operator would miss.

05-30-14, 05:49 AM	#5
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Plotting the faint endpoints of the sonar line is a good way to start as a beginner. Or as an experienced player, ... do whatever you like. It's just not quite realistic to get a range measurement from the hydrophone. As sound volume changes are very unreliable to base a distance on. But the same might be said of the accuracy of a hydrophone bearing drawn on the map. Real life equipment might not have given such precise directions. If you measure the bearing with the hydrophone controls yourself then it becomes much more believable it could have been used. The math/geometry is certainly not rocket science. An advanced method is to use what is known as the 4-bearing method. There are actually some variations of this method. But all use no range information from the hydrophone operator, only bearings (directions) at regular time intervals. Using that, and a bit of geometry magic (and a bit of patience), you can figure out what his rough course is. And if you displace your uboat you can also find his position/range and speed. This video (windows media file) inside a rar-archive explains how to do it while being stationary for the first 3 bearings. From those 3 you predict graphically where the 4th bearing would come from after the next interval. But instead of staying where you are, you move a way to get a different vantage point and listen where the sound comes from then. The intersection of the predicted 4th bearing, and the real (displaced) 4th bearing is where he is really at. So you have his position now. As you knew what his approximate course was, you can trace his movement back across the earlier bearings. And from those distances in between them you can calculate the time it took him to cross those lengths. From that you now have speed also. Kuikeg invented a different method (actually 2 variations) to do this while moving all the time. This might be necessary for your boat to keep depth, or whatever the tactical situation demands. Thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=179137 Version 1: http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/four_bearings_method.pdf Version 2: http://ricojansen.nl/downloads/the_f...%20Kuikueg.pdf Makman made this video tutorial: Stoianm made this tutorial: (in SH5, but is no different in SH3, same map tools)

05-30-14, 08:51 AM	#6
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Yup, as was stated, with stock SH3 and map contacts on the sonar is basically an unreaslistic underwater radar system. The lines radiating out from your position indicate the direction to the contact and the position is at the end of the line. As I recall, warships have red lines and merchants have black? It's been a long time since I played stock. When you get the radar detectors, they work the same way. In fact, radar detections function much, much, much better than your own radar. They have a longer range and don't give away your position. The only time you will get an icon on the map representing a contact is when you see it or your crew sees it. Sometimes you can see it through the periscope but it won't show on the map. Press L to lock to it and it will stay on the map for a few seconds. You can actually lock to targets you can't actually see due to weather and then go see them on the map. That's a cheat, of course. Steve