Indonesia shuts down military cooperation with Australia over phone tapping

TarJak · 11-20-13, 11:08 PM

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...sident/5108270

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...hoyono/5107810

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-1...ith-au/5106896

SBY is demanding an explanation and has ordered all military and intelligwce cooperation with Australia to cease. Personally I think it is just a bit of pushing to see how far they can go with our new government. Abbott should not apologise ajd should just tell them to not use mobile phones for confidential conversations. If Indonesias security forces are not trying to do the same thing to Abbott and co then I'd say that they're not really doing their job

TarJak · 11-21-13, 06:18 AM

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...hoyono/5109370

Herr-Berbunch · 11-21-13, 08:07 AM

Can't you just blame the NSA/GCHQ?

Oh well, that's money saved on the joint exercise.

A who's who - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-1...phones/5099952

Surprised at no Castout being on the list.

Jimbuna · 11-21-13, 10:35 AM

I'd be surprised if any country in the world thought they were immune to spying.

TarJak · 11-21-13, 04:03 PM

I agree which is why I disagree with the bleating about apologies. No other state, indonesia included, is likely to apologise or even admit that active monitoring is going on.

The over reaction is understandable as the indonesians have electrons coming up.

It gets up my nose when people here want to pander to our neighbours to stay in their good books instead of standing by what we do and telling the neighbours where to stick their protests. This is probably why I'm not a diplomat.

11-21-13, 04:14 PM

Hello?
Headquarters?
Yes, I'd like to report Spying by the Down Under Peoples.

CONTACT TERMINATED!!!!!

We Down Under Peoples deny this unfounded allegation!

My mistake!
Carry on. Nothing to see here.

P.S.
We don't 'Spy'. We 'investigate'.

Jimbuna · 11-21-13, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

I agree which is why I disagree with the bleating about apologies. No other state, indonesia included, is likely to apologise or even admit that active monitoring is going on.

The over reaction is understandable as the indonesians have electrons coming up.

It gets up my nose when people here want to pander to our neighbours to stay in their good books instead of standing by what we do and telling the neighbours where to stick their protests. This is probably why I'm not a diplomat.

Agreed

Cybermat47 · 11-21-13, 05:34 PM

I can understand the Indonesians feeling betrayed. After all, if somebody offered to dump thousands of refugees who might have terrorists among them on my shores, I would place my trust in them.

Wait, am I thinking of Malaysia?

TarJak · 11-26-13, 04:00 PM

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...letter/5118518

SBY has his private letter from Abbott and responds in the media.

My read is we'll sign up for restrictions on our intelligence gathering in Indonesia, which the intelligence community will likely ignore and we'll be back to spying as normal.

Loopholes are stock and trade in these sorts of agreements.

Jimbuna · 11-26-13, 04:09 PM

Tell him to go and play with the fairies.

Catfish · 11-26-13, 04:32 PM

One thing to gather intelligence.
Another thing to spy aggressively.
A third thing this happening among so-called friends.

Stealhead · 11-26-13, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

One thing to gather intelligence.
Another thing to spy aggressively.
A third thing this happening among so-called friends.

All three have been methods used by states since well there was more than one state.In other words for at least 8,000 years this game has been playing out nothing new to see here.

And it is not just states companies spy on each other all the time and have for years.

Catfish · 11-26-13, 05:10 PM

True .. but the scope of this new spying is a completely different animal.
And you seem to thoroughly underestimate the impact on the rest of the non-anglo-saxon world, or better the view towards this kind and scope of spying.
Yes all do now know you give a sh.. about that rest, but this does not really change their view. For some this kind of behaviour is still lower than prostitution. Not to insult the latter

11-26-13, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...letter/5118518

SBY has his private letter from Abbott and responds in the media.

My read is we'll sign up for restrictions on our intelligence gathering in Indonesia, which the intelligence community will likely ignore and we'll be back to spying as normal.

Loopholes are stock and trade in these sorts of agreements.

Soooo are the Indonesians going to agree and abide by the same "Code" or is that just for us? ,haven't anything mentioned about them holding to the same standards.

As Tarjack says ,it'll be business as usual soon ,us spying on them and them spying on us! - probably right after their elections are over.

Stealhead · 11-26-13, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

True .. but the scope of this new spying is a completely different animal.
And you seem to thoroughly underestimate the impact on the rest of the non-anglo-saxon world, or better the view towards this kind and scope of spying.
Yes all do now know you give a sh.. about that rest, but this does not really change their view. For some this kind of behaviour is still lower than prostitution. Not to insult the latter

I think the second part is a slight mistranslation anyway I think I understand what you meant to say.

It seems to be that for some time the Anglo-Saxon has been in control of the world for some time most likely because espionage over the ages along with military power has allowed it to be that way.Why you think that another would not do the same is hard for me to fathom.China who long ago was a great power and was also at the time far ahead of Europe used espionage extensively Sun Tzu said that effective spying was a key element in maintaining power he never once said a thing about playing fair.Other states if they had the resources would be no different the the US or Ancient China or Nazi Germany or the USSR.

The entire idea of espionage is to of course to know what is happening behind the scenes in a place to which one is not permitted openly to know the sought information.

I never said that it was right or wrong merely that a state or similar organization spying,snooping what have you on your has always been around.

The way I see it the technology has changed true but in the past states have had very strong control over their own people Nazi Germany and the USSR are two excellent examples of sates that extensive internal and external networks and saying the wrong thing was extremely hazardous.Soviet spies in the 1930's and 40's had extensively infiltrated key US government facilities and projects.

They say that prostitution is the oldest profession if it is then spying is the second oldest.

11-20-13, 11:08 PM	#1
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Indonesia shuts down military cooperation with Australia over phone tapping http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...sident/5108270 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...hoyono/5107810 http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-1...ith-au/5106896 SBY is demanding an explanation and has ordered all military and intelligwce cooperation with Australia to cease. Personally I think it is just a bit of pushing to see how far they can go with our new government. Abbott should not apologise ajd should just tell them to not use mobile phones for confidential conversations. If Indonesias security forces are not trying to do the same thing to Abbott and co then I'd say that they're not really doing their job Last edited by TarJak; 11-21-13 at 06:18 AM.

11-21-13, 08:07 AM	#3
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Can't you just blame the NSA/GCHQ? Oh well, that's money saved on the joint exercise. A who's who - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-1...phones/5099952 Surprised at no Castout being on the list. __________________

11-21-13, 10:35 AM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I'd be surprised if any country in the world thought they were immune to spying. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-21-13, 05:34 PM	#8
Cybermat47 Willing Webfooted Beast Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 5,408 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 23	I can understand the Indonesians feeling betrayed. After all, if somebody offered to dump thousands of refugees who might have terrorists among them on my shores, I would place my trust in them. Wait, am I thinking of Malaysia? __________________ Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620 Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

11-26-13, 04:09 PM	#10
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Tell him to go and play with the fairies. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-21-13, 06:18 AM	#2
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...hoyono/5109370

11-21-13, 04:03 PM	#5
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	I agree which is why I disagree with the bleating about apologies. No other state, indonesia included, is likely to apologise or even admit that active monitoring is going on. The over reaction is understandable as the indonesians have electrons coming up. It gets up my nose when people here want to pander to our neighbours to stay in their good books instead of standing by what we do and telling the neighbours where to stick their protests. This is probably why I'm not a diplomat.

11-21-13, 04:14 PM	#6
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Hello? Headquarters? Yes, I'd like to report Spying by the Down Under Peoples. CONTACT TERMINATED!!!!! We Down Under Peoples deny this unfounded allegation! My mistake! Carry on. Nothing to see here. P.S. We don't 'Spy'. We 'investigate'.

11-26-13, 04:00 PM	#9
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-2...letter/5118518 SBY has his private letter from Abbott and responds in the media. My read is we'll sign up for restrictions on our intelligence gathering in Indonesia, which the intelligence community will likely ignore and we'll be back to spying as normal. Loopholes are stock and trade in these sorts of agreements.

11-26-13, 04:32 PM	#11
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	One thing to gather intelligence. Another thing to spy aggressively. A third thing this happening among so-called friends.

11-26-13, 05:10 PM	#13
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	True .. but the scope of this new spying is a completely different animal. And you seem to thoroughly underestimate the impact on the rest of the non-anglo-saxon world, or better the view towards this kind and scope of spying. Yes all do now know you give a sh.. about that rest, but this does not really change their view. For some this kind of behaviour is still lower than prostitution. Not to insult the latter