"Truthers", 9/11 and Operation Northwoods

Catfish · 06-01-12, 06:03 AM

So people who criticize and want to know what the truth is are laughed at - i also did.
I have watched some documentaries and did not believe most, and now watched this:

Technical details, also explanations why we see what we see, and what is missing. Of course I do not believe that NO plane crashed into the towers ..

Statement from Jowenko, Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie BV, when they show him the video of collapsing building Nr. 3:
"Does the top go first ?"
"No, the bottom. It starts on the bottom. yeah. They simply blew up columns and the rest caved in.
- yes you see the bottom floors go first ... and the rest implodes.
That is controlled demolition .. absolutely. .. there were explosives at the crucial points ...
it's a hired job, done by a team of experts. Thermite is the word."
"This video was recorded at 9/11"
"That can't be."
"Seven hours after the WTC"
"Really ? ... Then they worked hard."

And another detail: Operation Northwoods
1952: Published under the "Freedom of information act": Plan to take a civilian aircraft, replace it with a drone, shoot it down, and
"... proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba."
(Original text and comments):
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...orthwoods.html

Sounds familiar ? Operation Gladio ? State terrorism ?

This is only one argument in an endless chain of lies, cover ups and deception. Indeed this film (b.t.w. backed up by explosives specialists (this concrete powder everywhere) from Denmark at other places) makes the official statement look like the proverbial conspiracy theory.

I guess i have become a "truther"

You may now laugh at me - but watch the video if time permits.

Skybird · 06-01-12, 06:30 AM

I don'T know whether these conspiration claims are right or wrong. I don't think they are, but I cannot rule out that they maybe hold some truth nevertheless.

But what I always have said is this: Bush was openly ridiculed by his own people, his respectability was at a complete low, already his inauguration started with a demonstration of how low respect for him was, hjust remember how his car helplessly waited for around a quarter of an hour in the rain when they realised the demonstrations ahead and did not know whether to proceed or not.

9/11 was the best thing that has happened to him in his whole presidency. It saved him and tremendously helped in reelection (which was, that is fair to say, at least in massive doubt), it minimised resistence to Wolfowitz 10+ years old plan to attack Iraq although the strike was prepared and launched from Saudi Arabians staged in Afghanistan, allowed long-wanted limitations of freedom and civil liberties, and enabled Bush to act strong on the only "quality" that he really had: to act pathetically, to make pathetic adresses, and by playing strong the pathos chord pull sympathy of the wide public back on his side.

9/11 was the best thing that could have happened to the Bush adminsitration at that time.

So yes, they would have had a motive, a terribly strong motive. Which is no evidence, to make that also clear, that they did it. They benefitted from the crime - only this is certain.

06-01-12, 10:55 AM

Quote:

You may now laugh at me

Thank you

Herr-Berbunch · 06-01-12, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Thank you

Like you needed telling.

August · 06-01-12, 11:27 AM

That's funny because *I* heard that 9-11 was actually orchestrated by Germans in a bid to destabilize the US and prevent us from stopping the reemergence of the nazi regime.

It didn't work...

flatsixes · 06-01-12, 11:32 AM

I lost some friends on that day. In those buildings.
Please stop with this crap.
Thanks.

Catfish · 06-01-12, 12:19 PM

I take it you did not see the vid then, the beginning deals just with those who died and suffered. Which makes the whole thing even more atrocious.
Close your eyes, nothing to see here.

mookiemookie · 06-01-12, 01:09 PM

The claims of the 9/11 truthers have been debunked over and over, years ago. There's nothing new in this video.

My pet theory on it is this: 9/11 truthers are scared and frightened people. It's a scary thought that 3000 people, just minding their own business, can be killed in an instant by some crazed extremists who hijacked a plane. And they're not wrong - it is a scary thought. But rather than face the truth that the world is a scary place, full of bad things that happen irrationally and seemingly at random - they believe there has to be more at work. This has to be a conspiracy - things have to be under control, there has to be a rhyme and reason to it. They think that the government or the Israelis or whoever plotted and planned this whole thing. Yes, it's for an evil purpose, but things were under control. But unfortunately, the truth is that not everything makes sense. Bad things happen to good people for no other reason than pure random acts of malice and lunacy.

Catfish · 06-01-12, 01:17 PM

What would you say about Operation Northwoods then, or all those interventions done in middle and south America - i think some people want to be blind on one eye.

You may be right though, i just think it pays out to think about who has the most advantages of situations and events.

Stealhead · 06-01-12, 02:02 PM

So you believe a documentary by people that call themselves "truthers".I question any person that runs around trying to tell you something having to use the word truth in their name to me that screams liar.Then the person mentions a factual idea North woods that was never carried out and he puts that in there to fit his story even though that plan called for the drone to be shot down over Cuba more or less an entirely different plan.And lastly why spend billions on a "fake" 9/11 attack when you could have drummed up suppoort for a war much more easily and cheaply via other means.Just lie and say that a US Air Force,Navy or Marine aircrew got shot down over one of the then still enforced no-fly zones and that the Iraqis killed them bam war declared easy sleazy.Why get into one war to falsely get into another?That is stupid as hell when you can easily just find a false reason or provoke your way into the war that you want and not spend billions of dollars.Iraq was the war that was wanted and they got it after 9/11 and the openness towards conflict that the War on Terror allowed.

Anyone that trusts their government without question is asking for trouble but so is anyone who believes the many conspiracy theories that are out there.I find the Global Hawk idea to be utterly ridiculous.As with other "truther" "docs" this guy is just filling in any holes with what he wants to find when he can not prove a thing he spouts.The mystery people in the line that is what is done by the military at any crash it is the exact same thing as a FOD(foreign object detection ) walk you look for small bits of trash after a crash or other accident the same thing only you are also looking for any human remains as well that is what they are doing anyone that served in an aviation branch of the military would recognize that I guess Mr. Truther he does nt ask that and get the answer because it is not mysterious then.I find the Global Hawk idea to be utterly ridiculous. Just look at any "truther" video "kin"(what suggestions show up) "The True Facts About FEMA Camps" ,goody gumdrops! and "Pole Shift May Be Imminent".

Halgarre · 06-01-12, 02:32 PM

I keep an open mind when I read and watch this stuff. Three things that does have me scratching my head.

One, The hole in the Pentagon, look at the Trade center hole, see where the wings cut into the building? where is the wing cuts in the Pentagon?

Second, How did he fly into the Pentagon without shearing his wings off and crashing long before he hit the building? why isn't there a trail of broken street lights and signs? If he was only flying inches above the ground, why isn't there a trail of blown cars and destroyed windows in the parking lot?

Third, Flight 93. There is too many questions about that. I won't even touch it.

I think of 9/11 as our generations JFK/Grassy Knoll.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 06-01-12, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgarre

I keep an open mind when I read and watch this stuff. Three things that does have me scratching my head.

One, The hole in the Pentagon, look at the Trade center hole, see where the wings cut into the building? where is the wing cuts in the Pentagon?

If I remember correctly Pentagon is built of steel reinforced concrete maybe it was strong enough to take the hit from the wings but not fuselage? I haven't seen pic of the damage in looong time so can't this is guessing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgarre

Second, How did he fly into the Pentagon without shearing his wings off and crashing long before he hit the building? why isn't there a trail of broken street lights and signs? If he was only flying inches above the ground, why isn't there a trail of blown cars and destroyed windows in the parking lot?

I would assume that he flew high above street level while approaching target and then made steep dive to target. Could he have torn wings out of place just before impact due excessive loads?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgarre

Third, Flight 93. There is too many questions about that. I won't even touch it.

Don't know what you mean...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halgarre

I think of 9/11 as our generations JFK/Grassy Knoll.

I agree.

Takeda Shingen · 06-01-12, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

The claims of the 9/11 truthers have been debunked over and over, years ago. There's nothing new in this video.

My pet theory on it is this: 9/11 truthers are scared and frightened people. It's a scary thought that 3000 people, just minding their own business, can be killed in an instant by some crazed extremists who hijacked a plane. And they're not wrong - it is a scary thought. But rather than face the truth that the world is a scary place, full of bad things that happen irrationally and seemingly at random - they believe there has to be more at work. This has to be a conspiracy - things have to be under control, there has to be a rhyme and reason to it. They think that the government or the Israelis or whoever plotted and planned this whole thing. Yes, it's for an evil purpose, but things were under control. But unfortunately, the truth is that not everything makes sense. Bad things happen to good people for no other reason than pure random acts of malice and lunacy.

My personal view is that these so-called truthers are objects of pity. They are so shallow and sad in their real life affairs that they cannot possibly fathom that the affairs of 9-11 were as mundane as Islamic terrorism. No, it must be a conspiracy; a twisted morass of machinations designed to intrigue. To them, no event is ever 'big' enough. It must always go deeper in an effort to afford them action in their sad little lives. The truth is out there.

mapuc · 06-01-12, 04:13 PM

I presume that most of you have heard of Hans Christian Andersen and his story "Emperors new clothes"

The US government have told us that this "emperor" have new clothes on him. The problem is that most of us do not dare to speak otherwise, we are afraid of being mocked or laughed at.

Markus

flatsixes · 06-01-12, 04:46 PM

"Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe."
-S. Freud

06-01-12, 06:03 AM	#1
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	"Truthers", 9/11 and Operation Northwoods So people who criticize and want to know what the truth is are laughed at - i also did. I have watched some documentaries and did not believe most, and now watched this: Technical details, also explanations why we see what we see, and what is missing. Of course I do not believe that NO plane crashed into the towers .. Statement from Jowenko, Jowenko Explosieve Demolitie BV, when they show him the video of collapsing building Nr. 3: "Does the top go first ?" "No, the bottom. It starts on the bottom. yeah. They simply blew up columns and the rest caved in. - yes you see the bottom floors go first ... and the rest implodes. That is controlled demolition .. absolutely. .. there were explosives at the crucial points ... it's a hired job, done by a team of experts. Thermite is the word." "This video was recorded at 9/11" "That can't be." "Seven hours after the WTC" "Really ? ... Then they worked hard." And another detail: Operation Northwoods 1952: Published under the "Freedom of information act": Plan to take a civilian aircraft, replace it with a drone, shoot it down, and "... proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba." (Original text and comments): http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...orthwoods.html Sounds familiar ? Operation Gladio ? State terrorism ? This is only one argument in an endless chain of lies, cover ups and deception. Indeed this film (b.t.w. backed up by explosives specialists (this concrete powder everywhere) from Denmark at other places) makes the official statement look like the proverbial conspiracy theory. I guess i have become a "truther" You may now laugh at me - but watch the video if time permits. Last edited by Catfish; 06-01-12 at 06:57 AM.

06-01-12, 06:30 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I don'T know whether these conspiration claims are right or wrong. I don't think they are, but I cannot rule out that they maybe hold some truth nevertheless. But what I always have said is this: Bush was openly ridiculed by his own people, his respectability was at a complete low, already his inauguration started with a demonstration of how low respect for him was, hjust remember how his car helplessly waited for around a quarter of an hour in the rain when they realised the demonstrations ahead and did not know whether to proceed or not. 9/11 was the best thing that has happened to him in his whole presidency. It saved him and tremendously helped in reelection (which was, that is fair to say, at least in massive doubt), it minimised resistence to Wolfowitz 10+ years old plan to attack Iraq although the strike was prepared and launched from Saudi Arabians staged in Afghanistan, allowed long-wanted limitations of freedom and civil liberties, and enabled Bush to act strong on the only "quality" that he really had: to act pathetically, to make pathetic adresses, and by playing strong the pathos chord pull sympathy of the wide public back on his side. 9/11 was the best thing that could have happened to the Bush adminsitration at that time. So yes, they would have had a motive, a terribly strong motive. Which is no evidence, to make that also clear, that they did it. They benefitted from the crime - only this is certain. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-01-12, 11:27 AM	#5
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That's funny because I heard that 9-11 was actually orchestrated by Germans in a bid to destabilize the US and prevent us from stopping the reemergence of the nazi regime. It didn't work... __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

06-01-12, 01:09 PM	#8
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	The claims of the 9/11 truthers have been debunked over and over, years ago. There's nothing new in this video. My pet theory on it is this: 9/11 truthers are scared and frightened people. It's a scary thought that 3000 people, just minding their own business, can be killed in an instant by some crazed extremists who hijacked a plane. And they're not wrong - it is a scary thought. But rather than face the truth that the world is a scary place, full of bad things that happen irrationally and seemingly at random - they believe there has to be more at work. This has to be a conspiracy - things have to be under control, there has to be a rhyme and reason to it. They think that the government or the Israelis or whoever plotted and planned this whole thing. Yes, it's for an evil purpose, but things were under control. But unfortunately, the truth is that not everything makes sense. Bad things happen to good people for no other reason than pure random acts of malice and lunacy. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

06-01-12, 02:02 PM	#10
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	So you believe a documentary by people that call themselves "truthers".I question any person that runs around trying to tell you something having to use the word truth in their name to me that screams liar.Then the person mentions a factual idea North woods that was never carried out and he puts that in there to fit his story even though that plan called for the drone to be shot down over Cuba more or less an entirely different plan.And lastly why spend billions on a "fake" 9/11 attack when you could have drummed up suppoort for a war much more easily and cheaply via other means.Just lie and say that a US Air Force,Navy or Marine aircrew got shot down over one of the then still enforced no-fly zones and that the Iraqis killed them bam war declared easy sleazy.Why get into one war to falsely get into another?That is stupid as hell when you can easily just find a false reason or provoke your way into the war that you want and not spend billions of dollars.Iraq was the war that was wanted and they got it after 9/11 and the openness towards conflict that the War on Terror allowed. Anyone that trusts their government without question is asking for trouble but so is anyone who believes the many conspiracy theories that are out there.I find the Global Hawk idea to be utterly ridiculous.As with other "truther" "docs" this guy is just filling in any holes with what he wants to find when he can not prove a thing he spouts.The mystery people in the line that is what is done by the military at any crash it is the exact same thing as a FOD(foreign object detection ) walk you look for small bits of trash after a crash or other accident the same thing only you are also looking for any human remains as well that is what they are doing anyone that served in an aviation branch of the military would recognize that I guess Mr. Truther he does nt ask that and get the answer because it is not mysterious then.I find the Global Hawk idea to be utterly ridiculous. Just look at any "truther" video "kin"(what suggestions show up) "The True Facts About FEMA Camps" ,goody gumdrops! and "Pole Shift May Be Imminent". Last edited by Stealhead; 06-01-12 at 02:29 PM.

06-01-12, 11:32 AM	#6
flatsixes Weps Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 362 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I lost some friends on that day. In those buildings. Please stop with this crap. Thanks.

06-01-12, 12:19 PM	#7
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I take it you did not see the vid then, the beginning deals just with those who died and suffered. Which makes the whole thing even more atrocious. Close your eyes, nothing to see here.

06-01-12, 01:17 PM	#9
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	What would you say about Operation Northwoods then, or all those interventions done in middle and south America - i think some people want to be blind on one eye. You may be right though, i just think it pays out to think about who has the most advantages of situations and events.

06-01-12, 02:32 PM	#11
Halgarre Shore leave Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Tennessee, below the thermocline Posts: 70 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	I keep an open mind when I read and watch this stuff. Three things that does have me scratching my head. One, The hole in the Pentagon, look at the Trade center hole, see where the wings cut into the building? where is the wing cuts in the Pentagon? Second, How did he fly into the Pentagon without shearing his wings off and crashing long before he hit the building? why isn't there a trail of broken street lights and signs? If he was only flying inches above the ground, why isn't there a trail of blown cars and destroyed windows in the parking lot? Third, Flight 93. There is too many questions about that. I won't even touch it. I think of 9/11 as our generations JFK/Grassy Knoll. __________________ U-33, Missing, presumed lost. U-105, Starting 4th patrol.

06-01-12, 04:13 PM	#14
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,535 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	I presume that most of you have heard of Hans Christian Andersen and his story "Emperors new clothes" The US government have told us that this "emperor" have new clothes on him. The problem is that most of us do not dare to speak otherwise, we are afraid of being mocked or laughed at. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

06-01-12, 04:46 PM	#15
flatsixes Weps Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 362 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	"Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe." -S. Freud