Real Navigation with GE

[Pilot_76]

Hi there folks,

How well would I do if using Google Earth as a nav map? Am I limited not to go to the poles? Any limitations at all?


I can't tell if the map projections are that realistic from the game.

tks

[WernherVonTrapp]

Not sure why you'd want to go to the poles but, I'm pretty sure you can do it in-game, even w/o Google Maps. I don't think they had satellites during WWII.

[Armistead]

You may be more interested in Celestial Navigation. It's more of a small mod that removes your sub icon from the game, the you use a Celestial program outside of the game...Very fun, but becomes the focus of the game.

[Diopos]

Originally Posted by Pilot_76

Hi there folks,

How well would I do if using Google Earth as a nav map? Am I limited not to go to the poles? Any limitations at all?


I can't tell if the map projections are that realistic from the game.

tks

If you are going to calculate distances, DON'T use GE. GE calculates distances taking into account earth's curvature. In SH earth is flat and the poles extend from the left edge of the map to the right. The "shortest routes", in GE, have no meaning whatsoever in SH.

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[Pisces]

Diopos is right. But the latitude and longitude coordinates on the SH3/4 map are equal to the GE coordinates. It's just that the SH3/4 map is rectangular, and the GE grid is wrapped around a sphere (-oid). So nothing is keeping you from plotting your journey on it. The extreme end of Land's End (or whatever Pacific Island) is where it is supposed to be. But your track wil look funny if you consider the distances over time and set speeds .

[Diopos]

Pisces,
really appreciated the "(oid)"!



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[Pilot_76]

Hi there all, thank you for the help...

The main reason that started this was that I was also seeking a complete immersion experience. I was also frustrated that as others have posted is that it feels that the sub although is WWII, it has a state-of-the-art 21st Century GPS. I'm a Pilot in real life and navigation has an essence of its own and I was compelled to try to reproduce it in a realistic way.

Having downloaded (still not installed yet) the Real Nav mod for SH4 it really motivated me to know more about celestial navigation. On Amazon.com I've looked into some books and I'll have a sextant in a near future to do it for real. Anyway, the celestial navigation can be simulated by centering with the control-mouse click command the sub on the map. As I have understood with each sunset and sunrise and with the proper tables in hand you can pinpoint your location to a good degree of accuracy. Still, it is only simulated you can do that anytime and the map will center on your sub's current position taking away the immersion and commitment of a faithful realism.

OK, now back to GE.

I wanted to use it as dead reckoning because the maps are much more detailed graphically and it has more information such as small islands name's. I think SH maps is very very "raw" or a GE beta 0.1 version.

As some have mentioned out, I'll have some trouble with distances and the likes but I was wondering if for short distances I'd be ok...

Before all this I was hoping that I could do a real navigation using real sailing charts but to actually aquire the whole world must be very expensive. I also though about using Jeppesen's Enroute charts (got the whole world) but the airways and the rest really make it difficult to spot where the land is and your own navigation marks. I also do not know if for sailing purposes it would work.

So my attention came to GE. It has the corrrect tools (rulers, compass etc). I haven't tested it yet (no net at my place) and also I don't know if it would make a good radar/sonar plotter replacement.

This is what I've planned to use for all SH series (yes, I got all of them from SHCE to SHV):

-Use Printed German AOB calculator, USN Course finder MK1 Mod3, plus one generic AOB by John Greaney.

-Real navigation mod on SH3 and 4 (Is there one for SHV?). DR and Celestial 100% in use.

-Maneuvering Board and radar plotter sheets in use. Having rulers bought and the rest needed (includes parallel rulers etc.)

-Mechanical stopwatch (Yes, using my iphone or a digital one it's very weird on WWII).

-Manual TDC. I'm still reading a lot, still very complex to me.

Obsession for realism is such that I'm planning on not using TC at all...No problem. Leave it running and do house chores at the same time!

If anyone has any ideas as to how make the navigation realistic as possible please let me know. I know that having your torpedos hit targets in manual TDC is a blast but doing that and navigating for real is much more fun for me...

thanks

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by Pilot_76

...

OK, now back to GE.

I wanted to use it as dead reckoning because the maps are much more detailed graphically and it has more information such as small islands name's. I think SH maps is very very "raw" or a GE beta 0.1 version.

As some have mentioned out, I'll have some trouble with distances and the likes but I was wondering if for short distances I'd be ok...

...

Bad idea. Unless you stick to sailing on the equator you'll soon start to experience the effects of pole-stretching. Even then, in the SH3 world (or SH4 ... Darn, I keep forgetting I'm not in the Atlantic in this Forum), 1 degree (longitude and latitude) is exactly 120km in length. That's not the same as on our real Earth, or in Google Earth for that matter. How short are the distances you have in mind? Sooner or later in the game you'll have to patrol near places like Narvik, Norway. Or cross Cape Horn, South Africa. Well, you don't really have to, but that's history. My advice is to plot and reckon yourself to death (DD will make sure of that ) in the reality you live in. And that is the SH3/4 world. If you really want the extra info, then plot the track on GE, but just use it as a projection tool.

-Real navigation mod on SH3 and 4 (Is there one for SHV?). DR and Celestial 100% in use.

Are you aware of this one? It's initially designed for SH4, but can also be made to work for SH3. (who knows, maybe SH5 too)
It uses an external sky simulator to do precise star fixing. And comes with tables and charts to do the number crunching by hand if you like.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135215

[Pilot_76]

Yeah Pisces,

Big difference, Lats were 900km and Longs were astonishing 11.000 km different !!! I'll just use GE as a "bullseye" mark...I'll sure try some navs but will keep an eye on both maps (game's and GE).

The real navigation map I'll try but I'll still let myself see the sub position for training purposes of my readings hen when I'm confident enough will let it go.

thanks again..

[Pisces]

I'm not totally sure, but I think the exact poles are clipped from the top and bottom of the SH3/4 maps. It only goes to a certain latitude. So if you measured the overall size of the map then your probably find odd average degree lengths anyway.

[Diopos]

Pisces,
at SH4 it goes to 90° N and S latitude. The poles are there alright!

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[Pilot_76]

Pisces,

I'd really like to navigate in SH4 (or any SH) using navigation tools just like in real life. Since SH4's World is a flat one, do you think that if I take a screenshot of some of the map's section I could print it out on an A3 size paper and try to use it for navigation?

If not I'd just use an A3 with grids printed just like the map's and try to navigate it but with no landmarks. In this case I'd have to navigate in both SH4 and the printed grid map to keep track of what is water and what is land...

[Pisces]

Sure, so far as I know or have learned from others over the years, all Silent Hunter editions have been based on latitude and longitude coordinates as a cartesian system. Throw your spherical geometry mathbook out of the port hole. If you really want it printed then I'd say go patch some screenshots together. Though you should make sure you don't change the zoomlevel. There's not really any use in plotting on an empty grid I think. Personally I really like to use the map drawing tools. Apart from editing mark names or add other remarks, you've got all the functionality you need since SH3 came with propper drawing tools.

[Pilot_76]

I'll try today. took 2 screenshots for testing. One thing that you mentioned that also bothers me is that you cannot write a note. Just Mark1, Mark 2 etc...