The incomplete stock UI

[Ducimus]

The following is my own analysis on what the stock UI is missing and what is needed to make it complete, therego functional. There are plenty of retro mods, but its my hope that by pointing out whats lacking, someone versed in UI modding might take up the challenge. The minimalist style isn't preferred by all, but for those who prefer it, things are not certainly looking up.


Anyway, if your first foray into SH5 was anything like mine, then you noticed the following was most glaringly absent:

A way to...
- determine heading
- determine or set rudder in degrees to port or starboard.
- set propulsion mode (to recharge battery or not)
- adjust salvo spread
- see torpedo gyro angle
- adjust legs on pattern running torpedos
- access anything resembeling a proper TDC
- determine depth under keel
- report weather
- determine distance to maximum distance at current speed
- return to course
- plot a search pattern
- better control the deck gun, such as fire at will, aiming at water line, etc.
- report nearest visual contacts
- access the gramophone
- acesss the user radio
- report nearest contact, follow nearest ship, etc


Now much of these can and are added back via hotkeys. But everyones hotkey configuration is going to be different, so these things should be accessible regardless of what hotkeys your using, so they should be intergrated into the UI somehow. However, some of these commands could be accessible onto respective and logical crewman who would be handeling some of these things in a real sub. So lets arbitrarily cut this list down.


These should be accessible on the UI, no doubt.

- determine heading
- determine or set rudder in degrees to port or starboard.
- set propulsion mode (to recharge battery or not)
- adjust salvo spread
- see torpedo gyro angle

While the lack of a proper TDC is noticeable, having one there isn't totally neccessary excepting that we have no way to adjust pattern runners! Therego go a full on TDC is not only desierable, but neccessary!
Such as the one illustrated in this post:

- adjust legs on pattern running torpedos
- access anything resembeling a proper TDC

These should be conversation options on the navigator

- determine depth under keel
- report weather
- determine distance to maximum distance at current speed
- return to course
- plot a search pattern

These should be conversation options on the watch officer

- better control the deck gun, such as fire at will, aiming at water line, etc.
- report nearest visual contacts

These should be conversation options on the radio operator

- access the gramophone
- acesss the user radio

Soundman conversation options obviously

- report nearest contact, follow nearest ship, etc

Im not sure where to adjust the conversation options, and though they differ from the User interface overlay, they can be considered part of the overall user interface with the game. I mention them on this point alone.




Now then, back to the user overlay...





Here's stock in all its unfinished glory:

The tutorial icons should probably go. The mission icon, is up to personal opinion, id say leave the mission icon, but one could always check their log if they dont remember what they were doing the last time they logged off. (like an MMO. lol)

By way of comparision, thanks to gutted (See his thread here: ) we have a little more to go on.



Now we know which way where heading, and look, we have a retractable orders bar. pretty sweet! But, we still have no way to tell what our rudders doing, and those buttons, while looking pretty spiffy, do nothing. Possible options to make those buttons perform, should probably related to the operation of the uboat, or most used commands for convienance.

examples could be:
- set propulsion/recharge mode
- raise/lower snorkel
- battle stations
- access to TDC screen if it existed
- depth under keel
- return to course

As for the rudder control, it should probably work like the depth control, only on a horizontal bar instead of a verticle one. and ideally be accessed , when one presses the CNTRL button, the compass being replaced by the rudder control, and graduated on a scale of:
( 35 port to 0 midships to 35 starboard)


That out of the way, here's the stock periscope:

While some users may not like that is offset and not centered, id say its a good thing in disguise. It leaves the entire left portion of the screen to place informational and control items without obscuring the periscope view.

Next screenshot for comparision


here's an edited version. Layout may vary, but the salvo angle adjustment and gyro angle should most definatly be there in some befitting manner. That leaves the rest of the portion for something else. Perhaps pattern running torpedo adjustments below the gyro angle when those torpedos are loaded?


here's and edited UZO:

Items of note here:
- centered view causes clutter when neccessary items are added. They should probably be positioned in an orderly manner around the UZO view, or maybe shove the UZO a smiidge to the right so its slighly off centered like the periscope.

- How the orders bar found by gutted looks when retracted.

- the little read square .. ignore that. i was going to illustrate something about rudder commands but lost my train of thought.


Anyway, im outta gas and this post i think got super long. Hopefully it conveys what is lacking and required to make a minimalist UI more functional.

If anyone has something to add that i missed, add it!

[gutted]

I like your idea of ctrl key turning that heading tape into a rudder control. Didn't even occur to me. *slaps head*

[jwilliams]

I like your ideas..... this is what is needed.

I dont mind the new UI, but as you said, it needs more options.

If someone mods the UI as you suggested, then i would be very happy.

[Westbroek]

Love these ideas. I'm very much in agreement with this. Ideally (and I only wish I had the know-how to contribute to such an effort) the dialogue trees could really saddle the bulk of our commands. I mean, seriously, let's give our Navigator a reason to live, he's old and scrambling for purpose in life.
If there was a way to scramble together a crew capable of taking multiple orders, a more interactive "clickable" interior with a TDC, and this minimal GUI... we'd be sitting pretty...

[TopCat]

Well, this suggestions look promising. This way I could even live with the new UI. The TDC must definitly be fully functional and accessible, but not necessarily on the scope and UZO page (that would be more realistic, because you were not able to look through the scope and look at the TDC at the same time). I would even prefer a separate TDC-Page in combination with a working TDC in the tower. I'd also love to see somewhere whether the tube doors are open or not.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

These should be conversation options on the navigator


These should be conversation options on the watch officer


These should be conversation options on the radio operator


Soundman conversation options obviously


Im not sure where to adjust the conversation options, and though they differ from the User interface overlay, they can be considered part of the overall user interface with the game. I mention them on this point alone.

Ducimus, good post. I have extensively experimented with the dialog scripts. I may be wrong about this, but it appears that only certain function commands will work with dialog scripts, certain function commands with crew scripts, etc. I tried using various crew commands in the dialog scripts, but I always got crashes. I could find no stock instances where crew commands were used in dialog scripts. I also tried using the key commands directly in the dialog scripts. Again- got crashes. It's worrying, because it appears the dev. team never intended for crew commands to be modded into crew dialog. Maybe some other modder will have better luck than I have.

[Drifter]

Here is an example. The orange highlight is the part I modified. The command should work, but crashes. Any ideas?


strategy DialogLine_RootDialog_CHIEF_NoCampaign_37_Click(Di alog)
{
precond
{
Dialog:IsDialogLineClicked( "DialogLine_RootDialog_CHIEF_NoCampaign_37" ) == 1
}
action
{
Dialog:GameCommand( "Crash_dive" );
}

[Galanti]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The tutorial icons should probably go. The mission icon, is up to personal opinion, id say leave the mission icon, but one could always check their log if they dont remember what they were doing the last time they logged off. (like an MMO. lol)

Should probably go?

See, this is what I'm not understanding with you guys who like the new UI. You're saying the dials are intrusive and unrealistic, but you're waffling on all the other garbage introduced with the new UI. ALL those indicators need to go, as well as everything in the top-right corner. Who actually uses those TC buttons? And I know when I'm submerged, FFS.

That said, this is a well thought-out analyisis. The idea about adding in all our missing functionality into the crew dialogs is brilliant. I would only suggest that some of them be available at all dialogs (yes, even if we have to scroll), as it might feel kind of silly to have to go up to the bridge to ask the Watch Officer what the weather was like.

[digitizedsoul]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Here is an example. The orange highlight is the part I modified. The command should work, but crashes. Any ideas?


strategy DialogLine_RootDialog_CHIEF_NoCampaign_37_Click(Di alog)
{
precond
{
Dialog:IsDialogLineClicked( "DialogLine_RootDialog_CHIEF_NoCampaign_37" ) == 1
}
action
{
Dialog:GameCommand( "Crash_dive" );
}

Is this python? Looks like it...

Is "GameCommand" defined? If not that would explain the crashes..

[SteveTRM]

I got slaped in the face for mentioning this in a previous thread but please check this out - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164798 I think it is a sticky aswell!

Incase you didnt know - Silent Hunter 5 come with all the stuff you need to edit the whole Game and a script debugger to check where you are going wrong. I know alot of you are just using Notepad etc but there really isnt any point - Just use the programs provided.

I have tried no end of mods and most of them are causing errors which you dont know about until you run the game using the information from the above thread. Please check it out for yourself before you all flame at me

You can actually edit files while the game is running, turn things off and on etc - Check what and why the devs have left some stuff out. You can edit the Terrain, add buildings etc, even edit the whole map - WHILE playing the Game lol

Dont forget you also get the Goblin Editor - this is a powerful piece of kit that allows you to look at the gr2 files, link files to nodes etc, edit the routes and waypoints of the animations etc etc etc - i have only scatched the surface of it but you can even load stuff in from sh4 (not tried sh3 as its not installed but i dont see why it wont work)

I think the possibilities are endless - imagine all previous versions of sh in sh5 - i think atleast the subs can be added but its way over my head lol

Dont get me wrong - i'm no modder, well not much anyway but i do like to fiddle and for me SH5 has been worth every penny, i know the drm thing is a nightmare and hopefully they will drop it but to have this much access to a game is worth the price.

All i want now is ducimus to work his magic and get some of the dials and buttons within the sub to actually work and i'm sure if he uses the supplied editors he will find it so easy I'm currently working on sounds - i already have the radio operator comment when the radio is turned on

Anyway - i wish you all good luck

[Bilge_Rat]

all good ideas. I also prefer the clean SH5 UI to the SH3/4 one, but anything than can be added to make it more functional is a good idea.

a couple of points:

1. most of the icons on the top center can be removed now by clicking on them;

2. I use the TC buttons in the top right corner all the time and find them very handy;

3. I prefer to have the periscope offset to one side, since you can drag and shape the TAI map on the left side and look at the map and scope at the same time;

4. I like the way the TDC works, very clean, intuitive and functional. My only suggestion would be to see if it could be lowered a bit so that it does not cover so much of the screen. On the other hand, having it there, makes it easier to keep an eye on the target and work on your solution at the same time;

[The General]

This is precisely what I'd like to see Ducimus. Thank you for taking the time to do this illustration.

I have a feeling that the Devs would never admit that the new U.I. needs improvement and that we won't see any improvement in a forthcoming Patch (if there is one)

[Medzell]

I have to admit I DID put the "backwards" mods in to try them for day and decided that was NOT the way to go. If we're constantly going to look backwards we might as well just stick with the tried and tested SH3 with OLC's or Manos' GUI ffs!

At present I'm using a keyboard overlay to get various control options and I've "activated" the existing SH5 heading bar which is a very handy although it simply reads out and doesn't allow setting a hdg other than by dragging a waypoint. The existing TDC control such as it is works perfectly well but a proper "dedicated" TDC screen would be wonderful and, of course, a Stadimeter that you could actually use! At present I set myself up for a measured distance and let the target cross the line with a simple 15 degree offset which means I don't need to use the Stadimeter at all. Unfortunately, without a good Stadimeter, it's so frustrating trying to work with map contacts off that it saves a lot or heartache just to have then switched on.

Having said all that, the new SH5 UI has amazing POTENTIAL if only people could look forwards instead of backwards all the time. I've no doubt, given enough time and the efforts of the VERY talented modders around the place, that SH5 will become as immensely popular and satisfying as SH3/GWX. (SH4 never rocked my boat to be honest).

Yes, it's currently far from perfect; Yes, there are a zillion small and annoying bugs; yes, it lends itself to the video gaming fraternity with those embarrassing "Pac-Man" areas around warships BUT it has the potential to be a real gem.

[TheDarkWraith]

coming right along.......AOTD_Rhoenen did the officers for me for the officer shortcut bar.



more to do I've found lots of goodies that the devs disabled either because they didn't have time to finish or ??? The top heading indicator on the binoculars is an option. I finally figured out how to use my own option file and thus each page loads the option file. The option file defines what the page looks like and can do. This allows me to combine UIs into one mod AND to make a page available in the game that the user can go to to configure their UI (this page hasn't been implemented yet though). The map tools bar is intelligent now. It knows when to expand and contract and you can tell it not to expand when you expand the TAI (you can also minimize it when the TAI is expanded). The TAI is also intelligent now. It will not expand anymore (when it was minimized) when returning from the map view, external cam, or any other station (it stays minimized). I fixed all kinds of errors, there's been a lot.
The officer shortcut bar is SH3 style in the way it works. When you click on an officer a row of commands pops up above them. Then you select the command you want. They are basically like the commands from SH3. This gives the missing functionality (weather reports, gramophone, depth under keel, etc.) that's been missing from SH5.

[gutted]

Lookin' good DW.

That version of the interface in your pic.. along with your minimalist TDC dials mod is definately the route im going. I dont really care for the SHIV style dials.