Advice needed on 0-degree attacks

[VonHesse]

Ok, first off, I haven't done any manual targeting, but I've decided that it's time to learn. I've been playing the Battle for the Baltic mod, and lovin it, but there's one problem; the torpedos don't turn after leaving the tubes, ever. No matter what you set the angle at, they only run at 0 degrees.

I've managed to be fairly succesful by getting within 450 yards and leading the target by 10 degrees or so, but there has to be a better way of doing it, and that's what I'm asking you about.

I checked out RR's Dick O'Kane method video, and it seemed hopeful, untill the end, when I saw that the torpedos turned by about 10 degrees to the right (I mean starboard, sorry). Was that because of the last minute adjustment that was made, or does this method always involve a left or right shift? Would this method be usable with non-aimable torpedos?

The other method that seemed do-able was the Cromwell 45 degree method. Near as I could tell, that method uses no adjustment and fires the fish out straight. It seems like this would work. Is also seems like this way would be more flexible on the range. What I mean is it that in the video, RR made a 3 minute diagram to know when to shoot. Seems like you could just proportion that diagram up or down for varying ranges.

Anyways, just a noob lookin for advice, here. Is there another method that I might be missing? What's the best way to manually target using a zero degree torpedo offset? Lookin forward to learning how do do this the "big boy" way (even got my big boy pants on).

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Hitman]

When I readed the post title I thought you were referring to a situation where you find your target with zero AOB, i.e. coming directly at you. This is a great situation because you have a very easy shot. The target course is perfectly known to you, and by heading towards him (On a head-on collision, so to speak) you can determine his speed quite easily by seeing the mast grow in the reticle.

I love to attack like that by getting close and then heading 90º left or right to make some distance, because by doing that I know that I'm exactly at right angles to the target's track and have a very, very easy shot. I can simply point my periscope some degrees towards the target for the perfect zero GA shot, as you suggest.

That's also one of the reasons I love the Salmon/Sargo and their 4 rear tubes

[jerm138]

Are you sending the range and target angle to the TDC with the little red triangle button? Just dialing it in won't change the firing solution... you have to hit the red button to send the data to the TDC.

[VonHesse]

Originally Posted by jerm138

Are you sending the range and target angle to the TDC with the little red triangle button? Just dialing it in won't change the firing solution... you have to hit the red button to send the data to the TDC.

To be perfectly honest, I have yet to use the TDC. In the Pacific, I've been using auto targeting, but now I'm ready to step up to some form of manual targeting.

What I mean about the torpedos not turning in the Battle for the Baltic is this:

In the Pacific, even with auto targeting, sometimes it's advisable to lead a target if it's going fast (read angry DD's). To do that, I would lock on to the target, and make an adjustment on the "torpedo settings" slide-out screen. Eyeball the adjustment (5, 7, 13, etc degrees) and fire. That would make the torpedo track further to the left or right than what the auto-target plot initially called for.

Anyways, in the BFB mod, this adjustment is impossible. Set it for 17 degrees starbord, and it still runs straight down the 0 degree line. So now, I'm looking for a method that lets me calculate the intercept point with a torpedo that only runs straight.

Like I said, I've had some success by getting extremely close and leading the target. I'm hoping to find a method that allows me to shoot at a more reasonable distance (1000 to 2000 yards) and still hit my target ('cause that's the whole point of the game).

Gonna go try the Cromwell 45 degree method, and see if that works well. Wish me luck. Any other methods or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[jerm138]

I would lock on to the target, and make an adjustment on the "torpedo settings" slide-out screen. Eyeball the adjustment (5, 7, 13, etc degrees) and fire. That would make the torpedo track further to the left or right than what the auto-target plot initially called for.

I didn't know you could make manual adjustments when using auto targeting.

Sound to me like you're ready to go full-on manual.
Do you know how to use the mission editor to give yourself some practice setups? That's how I learned.

First I made one with my sub pointing North and in the position I needed for the attack, and the ship far away, moving right into my firing range directly in front of me, at 90 AOB. Since I built the mission, I knew his ship type, speed, range, and course already. All I really had to do was enter that known data into the TDC and fire at the right time.

Then I began making the missions more and more complex, adding new elements each time until I was comfortable heading out on patrol.

There is an excellent .pdf manual for the mission editor here. And also a good (but simpler) tutorial in this thread.

[VonHesse]

Originally Posted by jerm138

Do you know how to use the mission editor to give yourself some practice setups?

There is an excellent .pdf manual for the mission editor here. And also a good (but simpler) tutorial in this thread.

Thanks for the advice! Sadly, I've yet to dig into the mission editor. Me and computers are just getting re-acquainted as my last computer was a Commodore 64/128...... luckily, my last save point already has a good set-up.

Ok, update... uh, this is too easy!

First time out, used the Cromwell method as I had seen in RR's video. Scored two direct hits on a single large German merchant from 2200 yards out! Second time, I set up for a stern shot. That was a little trickier since there's no sonar contact, but again two more hits from 2200 yards. Tried it one more time with a single stern fish from 1100 yards, this time I aimed specifically for a keel shot just under the funnel. Again, a direct hit. Broke her back no less!

With auto-targeting, aiming for a specific point is just a matter of luck as to whether or not you judged the offset correctly. This is even easier; just point and shoot.

I'm still not using the TDC, though, so I'm not sure I'm actually using the Cromwell method. The TDC is still locked, and I think I have to be in the office for the settings change to take effect. Or maybe the TDC is disabled in the Battle for the Baltic mod. Makes no difference, though, I'm still hitting them every time at very good ranges.

Basically, I'm just plotting a scaled down "3 minute diagram" as shown in RR's Cromwell method video. A "1.5 minute diagram" gives me a range of 2200 yards, and a "45 second" one gets 1100 yards... and all this time, I've been worried manual targeting would be too difficult

Thanks to everyone, and especially to Rockin Robbins. Without his videos clearly explaining all the angles, and times, and such, I'd still be exposing my sub to unnecessary risk by closing to 400 yards...(Uncle Joe Stalin frowns on unnecessary risk)

Happy huntings, to all. I'm off to sink me some Nazis!

[Bubblehead1980]

I have yet to play the BOB mod but from what I read in a post somewhere, the torpedos do not go off on angles once they are fired because russian torpedos were not able to do that.They were more point and shoot, thats the impression I got anyway.

[jerm138]

Ok, update... uh, this is too easy!

all the more reason to try manual...

[akudjinn]

I started a campaign in hard mode. I guess it requires manual TDC. Is there a way to turn auto TDC on/off? Drove me crazy trying to figure this out.

[magic452]

If you are in a career the only way to change settings is in the office before you start. The radio on left side of the screen. You can change auto targeting there as well as everything else.

Magic

[VonHesse]

Originally Posted by jerm138

all the more reason to try manual...

Whaa? But, but, but I thought this was manual targeting...

Seriously, though, I'm pretty sure this is as "manual" as manual targeting gets. In the Baltic mod, your torpedos don't turn, so auto-targeting is non-functional. Since I'm not yet in the office, the TDC is still locked (it might be disabled in the Baltic mod, I'll find out soon).

Without either one of those, I'm left to calculate the target speed and heading, as well as my own speed, heading, torpedo speed, and lead angle. Then I've got to calculate at what point to fire my fish so that they intercept the target and... make go BOOM!

And all of that with pencil and paper... rough Soviet paper, and cheap Soviet pencils, no less . Sunk me 6 German freighters for a total of 58,000 tons.

Anyways, not trying to be defensive, just tooting my own horn

If anyone knows of any better ways to target with non-aimable torpedos, I'm all ears. I'm using an abreviated Cromwell method with a "three minute diagram". (actually, I'm pretty sure it's a form of vector analysis). I'm just figuring this out, so any advice from all you pros would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, and happy huntings.

[sergei]

You're right. It's as manual as manual gets.
As you have found, vector analysis is the way to go here

[jerm138]

Ahh... I misunderstood you.

I thought you had auto-targeting on, but just wanted to be able to tweak the solution a little.

So, you're pretty much shooting from the hip by pointing your boat in the direction you want the torpedoes to go and timing it based on their distance and speed (and AOB), without using any sort of data computer whatsoever.

Wow... that sounds very difficult.

[VonHesse]

Originally Posted by jerm138

Ahh... I misunderstood you.

I thought you had auto-targeting on, but just wanted to be able to tweak the solution a little.

So, you're pretty much shooting from the hip by pointing your boat in the direction you want the torpedoes to go and timing it based on their distance and speed (and AOB), without using any sort of data computer whatsoever.

Wow... that sounds very difficult.

It's actually not nearly as tough as I thought it would be. It does feel rather "clunky", but I figure it will get easier with use.

Soooo satisfying, though. Aint got no TDC except for the one between my ears, so when those torpedos hit, it's because my calculations made it so. If they miss?... uh, blame Bernard for spilling soup on the charts, right?

(what's a clumsy German doing in a Soviet sub, anyways?)

Well, long story short, I guess it was the "vector analysis" method that I was looking for. I've heard people talking about O'Kane, Cromwell, Fast 90, and others I'm sure, but I'd never heard of vector analysis... well, now I know, and it works like a charm

Thanks everyone!