Fatigue - No good solution?

[bsalyers]

I know this is a perennial favorite topic on this forum, but I'm hoping there are some new ideas and/or answers.

Crew management modelling is a great concept. It forces you to remember that there are other "people" on the boat and that you are not out there by yourself. However...

The idea that a uboat crew would be "too tired" to do their jobs is ridiculous. It's not just contrary to the spirit of military service in general and the uboat elite in particular, it's contrary to the basic instinct of self-preservation. Nothing is quite as invigorating as having your life threatened, either by destroyers or courtmartial for dereliction.

I don't want to turn off fatigue completely; it feels like cheating. But if it's a choice between that and sitting there unable to move with a boat full of exclamation points, I'll take cheating. I don't know how the real-time players can stand it.

Has anyone come up with a sensible compromise?
TIA.

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by bsalyers

The idea that a uboat crew would be "too tired" to do their jobs is ridiculous. It's not just contrary to the spirit of military service in general and the uboat elite in particular, it's contrary to the basic instinct of self-preservation. Nothing is quite as invigorating as having your life threatened, either by destroyers or courtmartial for dereliction.

Yep!

[Heibges]

Check out the Hollywood Living Crew Fatigue Model. I have used it for about a year now, and find it the most fullfilling for my style of play.

Basically, you must rotate your crew every 8 hours or so depending on where they are stationed. Watch get tired more quickly than Control Room personel.

I play attacks in real time. So every 4 hours I need to rotate the crew. Most of my convoy battles take 24 to 48 hours of real time.

[Rosencrantz]

Do you use any mod(s)?

I used RuB, didn't liked it's fatique so I made my own. After that my crew was able to carry on more than 24 hour watch but also they needed longer time to be in power again. Unfortunately you can't get rid of the basic problems like engines shut down if crew too tired. But, I found my own fatique system to be very satisfying after stock / RuB systems.

Now I have just started with NYGM but before my first real career I think I have to do something for graphics...

[bsalyers]

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Do you use any mod(s)?

I'm currently using the Grey Wolves SuperMod and it's really reinvigorated the game for me. I highly recommend it.

Originally Posted by Heibges

Check out the Hollywood Living Crew Fatigue Model... Basically, you must rotate your crew every 8 hours or so depending on where they are stationed. Watch get tired more quickly than Control Room personel.

That sounds more realistic. I'll give it a try. Thanks!

[Heibges]

I find that in the literal sense it is the most realistic. After 8 hours they are tired and should go lay down in their bunks. Then they get back up and go back on duty.

RuB and NYGM Fatigue systems are equally realistic, just in the more abstract sense.

[bsalyers]

The idea of modelling fatigue, in whatever fashion, is completely realistic; it's the crew refusing to work that is ridiculous.

[Kapitän Cremer]

I play the stock game with a few eye candy mods...

I noticed that once I award the German cross in gold to any of my crewmembers they never seems to get tired...

Have run through 3 patrols with all my officers wearing the german cross and none of them have got even the smallest amount of decress in their fatique....

[vodkajello]

I think that crew fatigue is something that should be modelled in a good game. But I really hate it when I'm going flank speed to line up an attack run on a ship and my engines stop because some retard got a bit tired. It doesn't even take you down to 1xTC. You're sitting with your engines stopped at 8x or 16x. BAH! You have to quickly turn down the TC, hit F7 and press the little attack run symbol or cruise symbol to rotate your men. (Which it doesn't do a very intelligent job of in a lot of cases.)

If they had proper rotation management or macro settings or somthing it might be easier.

It's really tempting just to turn it off.

[bsalyers]

Originally Posted by vodkajello

I think that crew fatigue is something that should be modelled in a good game. But I really hate it when I'm going flank speed to line up an attack run on a ship and my engines stop because some retard go a bit tired.

Exactly. Imagine that happening in real life, circa 1941: "Onkel Karl, I'm sorry. We would've sunk that tanker, but Hans got fatigued in the middle of our attack run."

The developers should've at least created an exception for dangerous situations where the life of everyone on the boat depended on the crew doing their jobs.

Remember what happened when Johann got "fatigued" in Das Boot? He got fatigued, the kaleun got a pistol, and everyone went back to work!

[Heibges]

Do you use SH3 Commander?

If you like the RuB concept, but not the exhaustion, you can use SH3 Commander to give your crew more starting qualifications. This will make it a little more user friendly. Efficient stations tire more slowly.

And remember, when using RuB, stay in higher TC as much as possible because your crew will not fatigue. You can set this value in the CFG my editing 3D Render=32 to 3d Render=256 or some such thing.

Also, with the NYGM you regain stamina by sinking ships not by resting.

I think one minor weakness in "non-resting" crew mods is that, they are more constricting to folks who play a lot in real time, than folks who use time compression more.

Also, if you find targets with hydrophones rather than visually, you will find more targets sooner, so your patrols will be much shorter, and the fatigue effects of RuB or NYGM crew mods will be less severe.

[Observer]

Just to clarify, NYGM TW fatigue model and the RUB fatigue model have nothing in common. The NYGM fatigue model is the only fatigue model currently available that includes the positive and negative effects of moral on crew performance, and is based on a 12 hour crew rotation. This means you must rest watch sections about every 12 hours. The crew configuration is designed to be able to man port and starboard watch sections. It will be more complicated during battle stations because you will have many more crew members on watch, however this is realistic. In heavy weather, the bridge crew will fatigue faster than the belowdecks crew, however this is again realistic. This fatigue mod is designed to work at all levels of time compression, however may be "turned off" by altering the 3DRender setting mentioned above.

If you are interested in reading more about the NYGM TW fatigue model, you may download the NYGM TW v1.03 User Manual here:

NYGM TW v1.03 User Manual

If you are currently dissatisfied with the stock fatigue model, and/or the RUB fatigue model, give it a try. You may be pleasantly surprised.

[bsalyers]

I'm currently using Grey Wolves. I know it incorporates many aspects of NYGM; does it use the same fatigue model?

[zombiewolf]

remember in das boot when the engineer refused to go back into the engine room.

The captain made it very clear that his orders were to be carried out regardless of the circumstances.


Do what I say or be shot! Thats what I say no fatique and no negative vibes
Especially during these times (I am at 13th Jun 1944)

[Observer]

Originally Posted by bsalyers

I'm currently using Grey Wolves. I know it incorporates many aspects of NYGM; does it use the same fatigue model?

No. The only thing GW uses from NYGM is the damage model. NYGM TW has made dramatic changes to many other areas including the campaign files, aircraft and flak response as well as the fatigue model. More is planned for the future as well.