Obama's Socialism taking effect, Redistrabution of the wealth

Freiwillige · 03-11-09, 10:55 PM

On February 4th President Obama signed legislation designed to provide health insurance to uninsured children in low-income families, which will be funded by a 62 cent increase in the federal cigarette tax per pack . This will increase the federal cigarette tax from 39 cents to just over a dollar per pack. The federal tax per packet of “little cigars” is also increasing to the same level ($1.01 per pack).This is the first time there has been a national increase in cigarette taxes for over a decade. Although the tobacco companies typically try to reduce the initial impact of such increases by offering temporary discounts, it will inevitably lead to an overall increase in the cost to the smoker per pack of cigarettes. This increase in federal cigarette taxes is in addition to increases in state and city cigarette taxes that are also sweeping the country. Although the cost per pack across the country will be around $5, in places such as New York City a packet of cigarettes will soon be well over $7. If you needed another reason to quit smoking, having to spend over $2000 a year on cigarettes, in tough financial times, might be the one.

From-http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking_cessation/2009/02/cigarette-taxes-to-increase-across-usa.html

Im sure that there will be those of you saying just quit smoking. That is not the point of this. The point is that a small minority is paying for an ever growing majority of low income family's. General sales taxes arent being touched nor are liquer taxes.

nikimcbee · 03-11-09, 11:22 PM

It was funny at work to listen to our work group bitch about obama's spending, as they are all hard-core democrats.

Of course, it was all W's fault.

You get what you vote for.

A Very Super Market · 03-11-09, 11:43 PM

I see this as a beneficial incentive to quit smoking, with a side-effect of paying for low-incomers.

GoldenRivet · 03-12-09, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

The point is that a small minority is paying for an ever growing majority of low income family's.

get used to that under this administration and the many administrations to come.

the class division is ever widening... thats a dangerous thing.

and when your government continuse to allow the outsourcing of more and more American jobs... it gets to the point that there is nothing that can be done any longer.

keep taking it america, the beatings will continue until morale improves

Aramike · 03-12-09, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

On February 4th President Obama signed legislation designed to provide health insurance to uninsured children in low-income families, which will be funded by a 62 cent increase in the federal cigarette tax per pack . This will increase the federal cigarette tax from 39 cents to just over a dollar per pack. The federal tax per packet of “little cigars” is also increasing to the same level ($1.01 per pack).This is the first time there has been a national increase in cigarette taxes for over a decade. Although the tobacco companies typically try to reduce the initial impact of such increases by offering temporary discounts, it will inevitably lead to an overall increase in the cost to the smoker per pack of cigarettes. This increase in federal cigarette taxes is in addition to increases in state and city cigarette taxes that are also sweeping the country. Although the cost per pack across the country will be around $5, in places such as New York City a packet of cigarettes will soon be well over $7. If you needed another reason to quit smoking, having to spend over $2000 a year on cigarettes, in tough financial times, might be the one.

From-http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking_cessation/2009/02/cigarette-taxes-to-increase-across-usa.html

Im sure that there will be those of you saying just quit smoking. That is not the point of this. The point is that a small minority is paying for an ever growing majority of low income family's. General sales taxes arent being touched nor are liquer taxes.

Believe it or not, this is something I agree with Obama on - in a sense, at least. As it is, there is an extraordinary cost levied on the average taxpayer with regards to smoking-related health care. Higher taxes on cigarettes will help offset that cost and allow money to be freed up for other things.

Personally, I'd prefer that the strategy would be very limited taxation on smokers while the government not paying a single dime for smoking-related illness, but that just won't happen.

This is something that I regularly disagree with conservatives on. Nicotene addiction has been a program for redistributing wealth for years, but certain political elements don't quite understand that.

Freiwillige · 03-12-09, 01:06 AM

"Believe it or not, this is something I agree with Obama on - in a sense, at least. As it is, there is an extraordinary cost levied on the average taxpayer with regards to smoking-related health care. Higher taxes on cigarettes will help offset that cost and allow money to be freed up for other things."

If the money was taxed for that and only that purpose I would be okay with it. The fact is that little of the money is going to offset the taxpayers burden for smoking related illness. Instead its going for Socialisms little pet projects.

Enigma · 03-12-09, 01:50 AM

Socialism! Socialism!

My god, Aramike and I see eye to eye.....

UnderseaLcpl · 03-12-09, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

I see this as a beneficial incentive to quit smoking, with a side-effect of paying for low-incomers.

I strongly disagree with this and similar sentiments. Although the state has been "picking winners" in industry for years, it has not become more acceptable.

Firstly, policies of this type, whether they be taxes or subsidies, encourage harmful entanglement of state and private interests. People complain all the time about lobbyists getting this or that stupid thing pushed through Congress, and yet rarely stop to think why Congress has the power to do such things for them. In truth, they do not and were never intended to. The Constitution is very, very clear on the issues of uniform taxation and limitation of taxation in general in Article 1 Sections 8 and 9. It also enumerates the purposes for which said levees may be used, and promotion of the public health is not listed amongst them. Combined with the Tenth Amendment, which reserves to the states and to the people, all powers not declared to be the domain of the Congress, this legislation can only be viewed as violating the Constitution in spirit, and indeed, in letter as well.

As I said before, this is nothing new. The state often adjusts taxes or provides subsidies to encourage what they believe to be beneficial growth. These programs are not only unfair, they also fail to produce acceptable results.
To this day, every taxpayer continues to pay for failed subsidy initiatives of the past. Agricultural subsidies/incentives run into billions of dollars per year. They were designed to aid struggling individual farms, but despite these efforts corporate farms control the overwhelming majority of U.S. agricultural production, and they still get subsidized.
Another good example is the cornucopia of subsidies for establishing overseas franchises and capital interests. People bitch about outsourcing all the time, and yet their government helps to fund it. There are literally hundreds of tax penalties on industries and industrial processes that used to be prominent in the U.S.; Coal, steel, various types of raw materials refining, etc. etc. Which is to say nothing of the taxes more contemporary industries are beset by, some moreso than others.

This cigarrette tax will be no different. For one thing, the majority of smokers are lower-income citizens anyway. Call me crazy, but taking everyone's tax dollars, passing them through a huge and vastly inefficient state machine, and then giving some of that to lower-income citizens, thus helping them to afford the price hikes in cigarrettes, seems pretty stupid to me. Another interesting thought is what will happen to the multi-billion dollar tobacco industry and the employees thereof if middle-class consumption drops. My guess is that should the state pursue its' persecution of the tobacco industry, it will simply move elsewhere or find new markets, as so many have done before.

Finally, there is the question of whether or not anyone in this country has the right to use legal force to discourage an individual's right to use tobacco any other controlled substance. Users are informed of the potentially harmful effects of such habits and I do agree with the legislation that requires that. Anything beyond that is unacceptable. It is not the place of the state, or the citizenry, or anyone else to force their will upon others' decision-making freedom whether it is in their best interests or not.

If the power to choose for oneself wrongly is taken from the individual, the power to choose for oneself correctly is in extreme jepoardy, as so many states have demonstrated so frequently throughout history.

Freiwillige · 03-12-09, 05:47 AM

Well spoken!

AVGWarhawk · 03-12-09, 07:53 AM

They always tax our vices...tobacco, alcohol, gasoline. Seems to be wide spread use of these three, no?

I find none of this unusual that Obama would raise taxes on tobacco and fund a healthcare program. Looks like status quo to me.

Digital_Trucker · 03-12-09, 08:18 AM

Purely pragmatic question, but when people finally can't afford a pack of cigarettes, where is the money for these programs going to come from?

It will have to come from somewhere, since the programs will be in place and, lord knows, once the government puts a program in place, it can't be removed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for children, no matter their economic status, having health care, but is this the way to do it? Perhaps Obama could solve two problems at once (revenue and population growth) by proposing a world wide tax on sex

AVGWarhawk · 03-12-09, 08:23 AM

We can always go back to the window tax

http://www.longparish.org.uk/history/windowtax.htm

mookiemookie · 03-12-09, 09:21 AM

I smoke and I'm all for this. The income tax system itself is a "redistribution of wealth." This socialism meme is one of the dumbest things to come out of the right wing in quite a while.

AVGWarhawk · 03-12-09, 09:23 AM

Like I said a few posts back. This is nothing new or unusual.

Max2147 · 03-12-09, 10:46 AM

Obama understands cigarette taxes from the consumer's point of view. He was a smoker until recently.

I see it as a win-win. If the increased price gets people to stop smoking, then we reduce a huge drain on our economy. If the tax has no effect on people's habits (more likely), then a badly-needed service will be funded. I don't see why children ought to pay for their parents' inability to pay for basic services.

03-11-09, 10:55 PM	#1
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Obama's Socialism taking effect, Redistrabution of the wealth On February 4th President Obama signed legislation designed to provide health insurance to uninsured children in low-income families, which will be funded by a 62 cent increase in the federal cigarette tax per pack . This will increase the federal cigarette tax from 39 cents to just over a dollar per pack. The federal tax per packet of “little cigars” is also increasing to the same level ($1.01 per pack).This is the first time there has been a national increase in cigarette taxes for over a decade. Although the tobacco companies typically try to reduce the initial impact of such increases by offering temporary discounts, it will inevitably lead to an overall increase in the cost to the smoker per pack of cigarettes. This increase in federal cigarette taxes is in addition to increases in state and city cigarette taxes that are also sweeping the country. Although the cost per pack across the country will be around $5, in places such as New York City a packet of cigarettes will soon be well over $7. If you needed another reason to quit smoking, having to spend over $2000 a year on cigarettes, in tough financial times, might be the one. From-http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking_cessation/2009/02/cigarette-taxes-to-increase-across-usa.html Im sure that there will be those of you saying just quit smoking. That is not the point of this. The point is that a small minority is paying for an ever growing majority of low income family's. General sales taxes arent being touched nor are liquer taxes.

03-11-09, 11:22 PM	#2
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	It was funny at work to listen to our work group bitch about obama's spending, as they are all hard-core democrats. Of course, it was all W's fault. You get what you vote for. __________________

03-11-09, 11:43 PM	#3
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I see this as a beneficial incentive to quit smoking, with a side-effect of paying for low-incomers. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

03-12-09, 01:50 AM	#7
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Socialism! Socialism! My god, Aramike and I see eye to eye..... __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

03-12-09, 07:53 AM	#10
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	They always tax our vices...tobacco, alcohol, gasoline. Seems to be wide spread use of these three, no? I find none of this unusual that Obama would raise taxes on tobacco and fund a healthcare program. Looks like status quo to me. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-12-09, 01:06 AM	#6
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	"Believe it or not, this is something I agree with Obama on - in a sense, at least. As it is, there is an extraordinary cost levied on the average taxpayer with regards to smoking-related health care. Higher taxes on cigarettes will help offset that cost and allow money to be freed up for other things." If the money was taxed for that and only that purpose I would be okay with it. The fact is that little of the money is going to offset the taxpayers burden for smoking related illness. Instead its going for Socialisms little pet projects.

03-12-09, 05:47 AM	#9
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Well spoken!

03-12-09, 08:18 AM	#11
Digital_Trucker Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Peach State Posts: 4,171 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 10	Purely pragmatic question, but when people finally can't afford a pack of cigarettes, where is the money for these programs going to come from? It will have to come from somewhere, since the programs will be in place and, lord knows, once the government puts a program in place, it can't be removed. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for children, no matter their economic status, having health care, but is this the way to do it? Perhaps Obama could solve two problems at once (revenue and population growth) by proposing a world wide tax on sex __________________ RSM-GIEP-Killflags-LV Tribute-Playable Elco __Peace be with you, Dave.

03-12-09, 08:23 AM	#12
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	We can always go back to the window tax http://www.longparish.org.uk/history/windowtax.htm __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-12-09, 09:21 AM	#13
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I smoke and I'm all for this. The income tax system itself is a "redistribution of wealth." This socialism meme is one of the dumbest things to come out of the right wing in quite a while. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

03-12-09, 09:23 AM	#14
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Like I said a few posts back. This is nothing new or unusual. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-12-09, 10:46 AM	#15
Max2147 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 714 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Obama understands cigarette taxes from the consumer's point of view. He was a smoker until recently. I see it as a win-win. If the increased price gets people to stop smoking, then we reduce a huge drain on our economy. If the tax has no effect on people's habits (more likely), then a badly-needed service will be funded. I don't see why children ought to pay for their parents' inability to pay for basic services.