F35 JSF comprehensively beaten by Su35

[TarJak]

Interesting reports surfacing about the state of the JSF programme after reports of poor performance in computer simulation war games against the Su35 where it was comprehensivley "clubbed like a baby seal".

Sounds like the Australian Govt. might be better off buying something else...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...857899066.html

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/0...alth-figh.html

http://news.smh.com.au/national/jet-...0923-4m3p.html

[Jimbuna]

What exactly was this war game test.....Dowly v Hunter in IL2 :hmm:

[Skybird]

I can see the justificitation for a F-22-kind of interceptor (and even the F22 is not invulnerable), but the F-35 I never found convincing. If I were them I would go for some of the existing multi-role-fighter bombers, or skip the step and go for drones completely. So much for functionality. the price of the F-35 simply means a total waste of tax money - and this in the current financial situation of the US, and two wars needing to be financed. The cost-effect-ratio imo calculates extremely bad.

It were far cheaper forces that showed the limits of hightech warfare in Iran and Afghanistan, and it is far cheaper solutions from the Russian side that in these wargames show the limits of such expensive, prestigious hightech-systems. Quality can compensate for quantity only to certain degree, and not more. You cannot compensate without limits for being outnumbered by too big a ratio. and this: the fewer and the more expensive systems you use: the more hurting and painful is the loss of even just a single one of them.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I can see the justificitation for a F-22-kind of interceptor (and even the F22 is not invulnerable), but the F-35 I never found convincing. If I were them I would go for some of the existing multi-role-fighter bombers, or skip the step and go for drones completely. So much for functionality. the price of the F-35 simply means a total waste of tax money - and this in the current financial situation of the US, and two wars needing to be financed. The cost-effect-ratio imo calculates extremely bad.

It were far cheaper forces that showed the limits of hightech warfare in Iran and Afghanistan, and it is far cheaper solutions from the Russian side that in these wargames show the limits of such expensive, prestigious hightech-systems. Quality can compensate for quantity only to certain degree, and not more. You cannot compensate without limits for being outnumbered by too big a ratio. and this: the fewer and the more expensive systems you use: the more hurting and painful is the loss of even just a single one of them.

What worries me is that it's my tax dollar that will get wasted with this sort of mess.

I want my military to have good slick toys and all but not at any expense and if that means buying something less shiny then so be it.

@Jim, I hope it was a little more sophisticated than that. At least with someone who can land their plane.:rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

You guys missed this part:

...It's not clear just how much Australian domestic politics have skewed the reporting on the exercise's results....

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You guys missed this part:

Umm, will you take this part into account had the exercise said the JSF would have won by a mile?

[mrbeast]

F35 No good?.........Beaten by the Su35 you say?

:hmm:

Answer = Buy the Su35 instead!

[XabbaRus]

What worries me is that this was a computer simulation for which few have access to the results.

The thing is the USAF want the F-22 and will use it as ammunition against the F-35.

Remember when there was the DERA simulation of the Typhoon vs every other current fighter and the only one that beat it was the F-22 and against the Su-35 it had a 10 to 1 win ratio. Everyone poo pooed it as unrealistic. This is the same.

Until a full up version gets in the air we won't know.

Personally as a multi-role aircraft for what the UK needs it is fine....after all the Typhoon is doing very well and unlike the Rafale can self designate its LGBs

[Bill Nichols]

For a different viewpoint, see this article:

"Lockheed Martin, Air Force defend F-35", at

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20...fense_092208w/

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What exactly was this war game test.....Dowly v Hunter in IL2 :hmm:

No. If it were, Dowly would have somehow blown himself up with his own AIM-9 and Hunter, as I understand things, would have then crashed and burned on the runway while attempting to land afterward. No one would want to buy either plane.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

No. If it were, Dowly would have somehow blown himself up with his own AIM-9 and Hunter, as I understand things, would have then crashed and burned on the runway while attempting to land afterward. No one would want to buy either plane.

Ah!....so you've flown with them both online as well have you