YAR (Yet Another Review) of 1.5

[Rykaird]

So I've been doing very bad things to American shipping for the last few days in my IX. The only mod I'm currently using is the German sound mod.

I've had no serious bugs or issues, and not a single CTD. I ran into a corrupted save where I stopped getting credit for sinkings but it seems to be the old "don't save while underwater" rule. Once I started saving only when surfaced and at 1x TC it has not repeated.

The TDC and the rest of the sub functions almost identically to SHIII, so the learning curve is basically non-existent, which was a very nice surprise. I expected a re-training period but I was able to hop in and sink stuff. Only the radar was new to me.

The most notable difference between SHIV 1.5 and SHIII GWX, besides the graphics, is the difficulty. Ships in 1.5 are more plentiful, and sink easier. Destroyer escorts seem less effective, and I can actually engage air targets in gun duels and win. Heck, I made repeated raids on Midway over three successive nights that rivaled Pearl Harbor for damage. I'm racking up 100K+ tons per mission easy, with the only non-realism setting being map contact updates set to on.

I really miss SH3 Commander, in particular the adjustable TC settings, because I can't sit in my bunk at 256 TC and listen to the grammophone, which forces me to spend way more time than I would like on the nav map. I also miss some of the basic reports my navigator would give, and being able to manually operate the depth sounder, and some basic charting tools. As you can tell, these "losses" are all pretty minor.

The "hero" character functions seem a bit overpowered. Even the basic Captain ability to call in an airplane to give you a multi-hundred mile overview of targets, while greatly simplyifying game play, is hard to believe as being accurate. I'll give Trigger Maru a try, that may put the difficulty level back in.

I haven't tried the stadimeter for distance calculation yet. Does it work? I've heard the mast heights are broken.

On the positive side, I really like the new crew and damage management systems. The graphics are simply fantastic, and with the stickied guidelines for NVidia cards, I have a great widescreen image with no sparklies or other weirdness.

The crew still freaks me out a bit. Why do they look at me like that? Do I have spinach in my teeth? Are they mass murderers plotting their next crime? Sometimes their eyes are red like devils, and other times missing entirely, like a ghost crew. And always, always watching me.

Given the goal of this release was to have U-Boats in the Pacific using the SHIV graphics engine, I would rate this as a clear success. Compared to my initial experience at release with SHIV, which sent me back to the Atlantic until now, this is a working, stable product with beautiful graphics.

Since I'm a U-Boat guy, I'm not sure if I'll stay here or GWX 2.0 over the long haul. But I consider 1.5 to be quite viable, and much, much better than SHIV 1.0 in every respect.

Plus:

- SHIV graphics are just amazing, from ships to waves to sunsets
- Crew management
- Damage repair system
- Stable - I've had no CTDs and no major bugs

Minus:

- Too easy
- No SH3 Commander
- Losses of interaction with the sub
- Few patrols before end of the war
- All the GWX goodness (some of which may be in TM, I haven't tried it yet)

[Torplexed]

The "hero" character functions seem a bit overpowered. Even the basic Captain ability to call in an airplane to give you a multi-hundred mile overview of targets, while greatly simplyifying game play, is hard to believe as being accurate. I'll give Trigger Maru a try, that may put the difficulty level back in.

That does sound pretty fantastic. Air support wasn't something a U-Boat captain could really routinely expect, especially from the overstretched Japanese. I may just ignore that ability.

I have not played yet so don't know how things are going to react in game
at this time.
But I see alot of neat toys to play with when I Hex the files!!

[Ducimus]

stock uboat game is basically like stock sh3, maybe even easier then that. I was looking in the campaign files the other day, and of the three or four allied convoy groups i looked at in the indian ocean, none of them had a single escort. As an aside, TM will not fix anything in the uboat game. Its focused on the pacific game, and some of the AI adjustments only apply to japanese ships, not allied ships , as they use an entirely different sensor suite.

Time the GW folks get to work again. I agree the game is a fantastic basis now. Now all we need is an Atlantic Campaign. The hardest part, I'd imagine is making the Type II and VII playable with all their upgrades.

But I'd also like to see US subs operating in the Atlantic. THe U boat addon gives the whole SHIV game the basics to become "epic". I am really curious how the mods have developed in a year.

[kiwi_2005]

Yea Uboats stock is too easy first time ive wished for a rogue destroyer to come along bent on sinking me making me work overtime to survive. Haven't really had that yet.

[Rockin Robbins]

That the Brits were the great ASW force in the first half of the war. It wasn't until the US jeep carrier hunter-killer groups came around that we Americans could claim any better abilities. To make 1943 American destroyers have the same characteristics as the British ones in the Atlantik would be wrong.

Depth sounder is controllable manually in SH4. Charting tools are all there too.

Hey, you don't belong anywhere near Midway. If you don't stick to finishing your objectives you'll get a little SH4 surprise. We don't have a free-form do whatever you want world here. If you don't complete your objectives you can sink your 100,000 tons and be removed from command! THAT's a welcome change.

I still think SH3 and SH4 are fatally flawed in simulating a U-Boat war that was so dependent on wolfpacks when you are the only U-Boat in the ocean. In that regard, SH4 on the American side is far superior, as American boats acted singly, even in "wolfpacks."

Can't wait for the GWXers to attack SH4UBM! If we can keep them and Ducimus in their respective spheres of operation we'll all be in heaven. I don't think that will be a problem.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That the Brits were the great ASW force in the first half of the war. It wasn't until the US jeep carrier hunter-killer groups came around that we Americans could claim any better abilities. To make 1943 American destroyers have the same characteristics as the British ones in the Atlantik would be wrong.

Depth sounder is controllable manually in SH4. Charting tools are all there too.

Hey, you don't belong anywhere near Midway. If you don't stick to finishing your objectives you'll get a little SH4 surprise. We don't have a free-form do whatever you want world here. If you don't complete your objectives you can sink your 100,000 tons and be removed from command! THAT's a welcome change.

I still think SH3 and SH4 are fatally flawed in simulating a U-Boat war that was so dependent on wolfpacks when you are the only U-Boat in the ocean. In that regard, SH4 on the American side is far superior, as American boats acted singly, even in "wolfpacks."

Can't wait for the GWXers to attack SH4UBM! If we can keep them and Ducimus in their respective spheres of operation we'll all be in heaven. I don't think that will be a problem.

Wow, quite a hostile entry. I thought subsim was not as ignorant and nationalistic based as the UBI forums? Figured ppl here were a more mature bunch and might like to have more variety in the game and see a big part of the community becoming as happy as the Pacifictionados? Was a bit wrong maybe.

The U-Boat war was not as dependant on wolfpack tactics as you may think. wolfpacks were only one part of many aspects of the u boat war. It's a great shame it has not been implemented, and played it's part for a time.

But it's not an urgent requirement for a successful and mostly realistic u-boat campaign.

[Trunks420]

The one thing that I would love too see most (and I'm sure I'm not alone) is a new Destroyer Command game. I have no clue as to why ubi has not taken advantages of this. Seeing how DC & SH2 was moderate success. You would think that they would attempt something by now. Oh well, I still hope.....

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Great review. I dont have experience with RSRD as a large mod, I've only used Trigger Maru, but in my opinion, it makes everything alot more realistic.

Now I'm just waiting for them to stop using my Narwhal class as a bloody transport ship

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Wow, quite a hostile entry. I thought subsim was not as ignorant and nationalistic based as the UBI forums? Figured ppl here were a more mature bunch and might like to have more variety in the game and see a big part of the community becoming as happy as the Pacifictionados? Was a bit wrong maybe.

The U-Boat war was not as dependant on wolfpack tactics as you may think. wolfpacks were only one part of many aspects of the u boat war. It's a great shame it has not been implemented, and played it's part for a time.

But it's not an urgent requirement for a successful and mostly realistic u-boat campaign.

Wow! Instead of logically discussing simple statements of facts, throwing around disparaging terms (ignorant, nationalistic, hostile, Pacifictionados, "figured ppl here were a more mature bunch") substitues for rational thought. I can defend my statements, which are not based on the characteristics implied in parentheses, but there is no defense for rudeness. Let me ignore that and explain one point only.

U-Boats did not carry enough torpedoes to make a meaningful impact on convoys of dozens of ships, if operating alone. Winning the Battle of the Atlantic depended on wolfpacks bringing enough torpedoes to the party to decimate the convoy. Donitz' entire default attack plan was that one U-Boat locates the convoy and shadows, radioing for help. BdU sends it and only after a sufficient number of subs are collected does the attack take place.

For success, the U-Boat war depended on wolfpacks and centralized control. In SH3 there is no centralized control at all, just a free for all, go where you please. This is most unrealistic and simulates nothing beyond single boat handling skills. It is interesting that I've had several nice conversations with Kpt Lehmann where we were in agreement on this point. (we didn't even call each other names!)

The vital function of the wolfpack was to overwhelm the escorts to take out the merchies. No aspect of that takes place when you are a single U-Boat attacking a convoy guarded by 4 to 6 escorts.

SH4UBM fixes half of that by giving you actual missions, sent to you by ComSubPac (that's BdU in pig latin). You are to complete the mission and not go off willy-nilly doing whatever you please or the admiralty relieves you of command. That is a meaningful improvement. I should add that going with an Indian Ocean instead of Atlantic campaign also minimizes the impact of the no wolfpacks problem because any operations there could not collect enough U-Boats to constitute a wolfpack. Imagine! An unrealistic campaign results in more realistic gameplay! Single U-Boat operations actually make sense there.

Please scan your list of perjoratives and either defend their use or abandon them. Those who know me laugh with me.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Keep it civil people.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Wow! Instead of logically discussing simple statements of facts, throwing around disparaging terms (ignorant, nationalistic, hostile, Pacifictionados, "figured ppl here were a more mature bunch") substitues for rational thought. I can defend my statements, which are not based on the characteristics implied in parentheses, but there is no defense for rudeness. Let me ignore that and explain one point only.

U-Boats did not carry enough torpedoes to make a meaningful impact on convoys of dozens of ships, if operating alone. Winning the Battle of the Atlantic depended on wolfpacks bringing enough torpedoes to the party to decimate the convoy. Donitz' entire default attack plan was that one U-Boat locates the convoy and shadows, radioing for help. BdU sends it and only after a sufficient number of subs are collected does the attack take place.

For success, the U-Boat war depended on wolfpacks and centralized control. In SH3 there is no centralized control at all, just a free for all, go where you please. This is most unrealistic and simulates nothing beyond single boat handling skills. It is interesting that I've had several nice conversations with Kpt Lehmann where we were in agreement on this point. (we didn't even call each other names!)

The vital function of the wolfpack was to overwhelm the escorts to take out the merchies. No aspect of that takes place when you are a single U-Boat attacking a convoy guarded by 4 to 6 escorts.

SH4UBM fixes half of that by giving you actual missions, sent to you by ComSubPac (that's BdU in pig latin). You are to complete the mission and not go off willy-nilly doing whatever you please or the admiralty relieves you of command. That is a meaningful improvement. I should add that going with an Indian Ocean instead of Atlantic campaign also minimizes the impact of the no wolfpacks problem because any operations there could not collect enough U-Boats to constitute a wolfpack. Imagine! An unrealistic campaign results in more realistic gameplay! Single U-Boat operations actually make sense there.

Please scan your list of perjoratives and either defend their use or abandon them. Those who know me laugh with me.

Oi, there we go again. Appears my first impression was valid. What a shame.

P.S. Ys, Dönitz strategy was indeed based on Wolfpacks. But in practice there simply were not enough boats available at any given time to make this a standart "all the time" tactic at all. Boats would gather up in case a Convoi was spotted in due time. After that they'd usually return to their patrol grids.

[Rykaird]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Hey, you don't belong anywhere near Midway. If you don't stick to finishing your objectives you'll get a little SH4 surprise. We don't have a free-form do whatever you want world here. If you don't complete your objectives you can sink your 100,000 tons and be removed from command! THAT's a welcome change.

Thanks for the reply. I would point out however that once you complete your mission objectives you are free to go pirating around as you see fit without any issues with BdU. I have a chest full of medals that attest to this.

This may not be realistic, but hey, there is a lot of fantasy "what if" built into the U-Boat missions. It's also pretty fun. I'm thinking about raiding San Diego next.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Rykaird

Thanks for the reply. I would point out however that once you complete your mission objectives you are free to go pirating around as you see fit without any issues with BdU. I have a chest full of medals that attest to this.

This may not be realistic, but hey, there is a lot of fantasy "what if" built into the U-Boat missions. It's also pretty fun. I'm thinking about raiding San Diego next.

Arrrrrrrrrrr! I actually got a message last night after I completed a mission to seek my own pleasure. That NEVER happened in the US Navy! I'm enjoying life in the Kriegsmarine!