Is there any possible way to sneak up on a convoy? TM 1.6

[nx02nx02]

HI there. I have a question about Silent Hunter 4 and trigger Maru 1.6

It seems no matter what I do day or night silent or not, no matter how deep or how silent I am always, always magically detected.

I imagine half of the fun of the game is getting into a firing position without being detected. (Sneaking up on them) and the first sign they have that you are there should be a torpedo impact.

The way the game is right now this just simply doesn't work and it takes alot away from the game. I play on 90% or sometimes 100% realism and I want the game to be as hard as possible but not to be detected unrealistically.

I have tried coming in at an angle, silent, 1 knot, 0 knots, deep, shallow and every other possible way and I am always detected in a cheating way.

Is there a mod or a fix or some way to sneak up on a convoy without being detected?

Or if anyone here knows how to sneak up I sure would like to know how. Thanks for reading and I do love the game and mod, I am just trying to understand how to play better. Thanks.

[NefariousKoel]

I lowered the AI sonar sensitivity a bit in the sim.cfg file. I lowered mine to 0.07 or 0.08 from the stock 0.1, can't recall right off.

It helps but the big issue is that when you're in front of a Destroyer and within a certain distance - they always turn on their active sonar. Unfortunately this was something the Devs added in the 1.3 patch. I thought the detection was great in v1.2 with the sonar sensitivity modded upwards (instead of down) and they would start pinging only if they heard you on sonar.

Now they just automatically let loose like they magically know you're close and go active even if they haven't detected you.

[mrbeast]

IIRC allied escorts would ping pretty much constantly with their ASDIC sonar while on a convoy, contiually sweeping the sea. The chances of detecting a sub on hydrophones alone are very small unless the escort was right on top of it and it was going at flank speed. The sound from all those merchants would easily mask a sub travelling at low speed.

As to the IJN I'm not that sure because they only generally used small convoys until late on, they might have more of a chance with hydrophones. But I still think that they would be sweeping with active, something the game doesn't model correctly IMO it just seems to turn on the pings when you are in front of a destroyer.

So really it should be the other way round active first to aquire a target then passive later to listen quietly while it has a sub cornered. But active all the time, so you could hear it in the distance on hydrophones, not just suddenly when the AI uses its 6th sense to decide that there might be a sub around.

As to approach tactics I would maintain a bow on attitude until I needed to set up a shot, travel only at about 2 knots max at periscope depth, only taking very short peeks at the target and if you need to close distance at speed try to go deep and keep under a thermal layer to mask the sound of your screws.

[leovampire]

There seems to be a semi passive radar on the DD's that pick up the scope. Only raise it to readjust your heading or to line up a shot and keep it as low as possable. After the shot is made put it back down until your Torpedo clock says they are close to hitting then check keeping the scope low on results.

Stealth is everything.

I have had DD's come after me with the scope all the way up then back off as soon as it goes down when they are far enough away not to hear me.

Be Vewy Vewy quiet.I try to get ahead of a convoy go deep very deep then wait, rise to scope level
and fire.
I call it a Chew & Screw

[mrbeast]

I've had that happen to me too. I managed to sneak into Taipeh harbour at night in my current career (USS Triton), past the patrol vessel (was one of Taters converted tug boats). I popped up for a look, he flashed a search light at me, and started towards me. I down scoped and kept silent eventually he justy circled and couldn't locate me. Unfortunately for the Japanese at that point his AI gave out and, due to dodgy pathing, managed to get stuck behind a dock .

So I put two torps in a small tanker, which burst into flames and sank and my last two into a large freighter but it wouldn't go down .

[FAdmiral]

With 1.3, if you enter the DD's sonar cone above the thermal, he is gonna ping you, no doubt about it. SO, stay out of that cone. If you are below the thermal,
I have seen it go either way (experience=yes,inexperience=no) The DD's experience of the crew makes a BIG difference. Sometime I see the DD get a
ping return, so I immediately change depth, speed up and turn. Usually he will
drop close but not on me. I try to always steer towards the zig-zaging targets
so at the last moment I came come to PD, shoot and go deep again. This works
the majority of the time but if the DD is just to close, I go for another target...

JIM

[leovampire]

while on the sound station or you will have every DD around after you! I did that once OMG did I regret it. And didn't save for several game days so there went the task force attack I was trying for.

[jdkbph]

Originally Posted by leovampire

There seems to be a semi passive radar on the DD's that pick up the scope. Only raise it to readjust your heading or to line up a shot and keep it as low as possable.

Have we been able to confirm whether or not the height of the scope actually makes a difference in the game?

I had assumed all along that it did... but the reason I question this now is the other day I was fired upon by an escort while submerged, with the scope partially lowered so it was under water, but not completely in down in the well.

Now it's possible - but not likely given the smooth sea state at the time - that the scope broke the surface and was spotted. But it got me thinking. Maybe the game, for detection purposes, simply sees the scope as either fully lowered... or not. Or perhaps the up/down cut off point is the surface itself? Either of which would mean that an inch above water is as good as mile...

Thoughts?

JD

[Doolan]

Interesting observation.

I have to say that patch 1.3 (not necessarily TM) has increased the escort capabilities a bit too much. Yes, it makes the game challenging, and yes, I know you can escape escorts most of the time by diving under the thermal layer or evading the sonar cone. Still, accounts are full of escort captains pretty much guessing where their DCs went and stating how difficult it was to actually hit something, while IJN destroyers post-1.3 patch are mean killing machines that have little or nothing to fear from us.

I'm still shocked at the DD that hit me with a charge yesterday in its first run while I was under the thermal layer, rigged for silent running and doing a circle with full rudder to port. Sure, they can get lucky, but they seem to get lucky too often.

The opposite happens to planes imho. Only once I've been sunk by one, and the way they aim they're actually manageable if you aim well with the AA. Shouldn't they be fearsome opponents?

[mrbeast]

Does the game model any of the effects of clear water at periscope depth, ie your sub being visible even though its submerged on very calm days or is it just a graphics effect and has no bearing on the AI spotting you?

I've often thought that its strange that aircraft won't attack you when you're at periscope depth on a calm day and clearly visible from the air when you look on the external camera.

[leovampire]

for the Ships and Plane's control what they can see when and where around them.
Graffic's has nothing to do with it that is just for us as players.

For instance the sensors are set up where it is hard for planes to see us at night so they dont fly at night anymore and in high sea's it is hard for them to spot the wake so they don't always see you and that is also controled in the visual sensors node's. There are also settings that stop them from seeing to far away in thefog state's. As long as the game register's these conditions they can not spot you.

I think so many people wanted the scope's spoted by ships the Dev's did it in patch 1.3 it is just a little too sensitive and can be seen too far away in any condition from 0 mps wind's to almost 8 mps wind's and wave state's.

[NefariousKoel]

I'd rather the devs had set the AI escorts to randomly switch between listening and pinging. Barring that, I'd rather it be like 1.2 when they'd go active if they heard something.:hmm:

[tater]

Jap DC capability isn't specifically modeled at all, frankly. In RL, jap DCs could only be set at 30m depth intervals, for example.

The problem is that in RL, the japs droped loads of DCs, but poorly. In game they seem to only drop within certain "firing solution" parameters so if they drop at all, they tend to be better aimed than they should be.

One thing that really has not been properly tested, IMO, is the interaction of AI skill vs AI sensor settings.

TM dumps all the elites, but it also concentrates on competant and veteran AI.

I think If AI 1 and 2 was not entirely stupid, we might see better variability in AI attacks. The problem in the past has been that AI 1 was so clueless they'd not shoot back on the suraface at your subs half the time.

MIght be interesting to really dial UP the sensors, then set the AI lower (as a test).

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I'd rather the devs had set the AI escorts to randomly switch between listening and pinging.:hmm:

I remember years ago in Aces of the Deep the escorts would pretty much do that pinging and patroling around convoys, felt a bit more authentic than in SH.