Bye Bye Europe

[Rockstar]

But they said it was going to be revived roman empire they said they knew how to better interpret it themselves.

Turkey’s leaders plan Muslim Europe

If you thought Turkey was no threat to the West, think again. A new generation of politicians is aiming to Islamise the state by stealth. The AKP - Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi, or Justice and Development Party - has a stranglehold on Turkey for the foreseeable future.


The AKP was founded to replace a previous Islamic party banned for extremism. It benefited hugely from the corruption scandals that dragged down the previous government, taking two-thirds of parliament in the 2002 general election (on a third of the vote).

On Friday, its ex-foreign secretary Abdullah Gul narrowly failed to win a victory in the first round of presidential elections. The result was close enough to prompt public demonstrations by secularists ahead of the second round voting on May 2, and a statement from the military - long the
guardians of Turkey’s secular traditions - warning against a pro-Islam political agenda.

Since coming to power, the AKP has done nothing revolutionary, but it does have a revolutionary agenda. For all their suavity, its leaders seek to transform the country into a Sunni Muslim republic. This collides with institutions and laws strictly limiting Islam’s role in public life, and with a long-standing security alliance with Israel.

It also collides with democracy itself, for no Koranic state can have a sovereign parliament free to legalise such abominations as equal rights for women and homosexuals or the drinking of alcohol.

A sinister slogan attributed to the AKP is that democracy is ‘a bus we can ride until we reach our station’. Under Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his foreign secretary Abdullah Gul, the party has been cautious until now.

But abroad the AKP has been more strident. Turkey has stepped up relations with Muslim countries and cooled them with Israel. They have capitalised on public suspicion of the

Western war on terror and yet have pursued Turkey’s application to join the EU.

There is no inconsistency. The AKP’s apparent ambitions in Europe are its most strategic deceptions. Ostensibly, the aim is simply to accelerate Turkey’s climb to prosperity.

However, a key condition imposed by the EU is the army’s abrogation of political authority - which suits the AKP just fine, for the military is the greatest barrier to Islamisation. Moreover, the party shares the Islamist belief that Europe will inevitably be conquered by the high birthrates of its Muslim inhabitants - and Turkey’s entry would immediately add some 70 million.

Then there’s the media. There are three major groups in Turkey, compared to which any Islamist operations are small. However, the government now has a hold over all of them because of contested tax liabilities, and because the government-controlled Savings Deposits Insurance Fund can seize their associated banks at any time without even having to go to court.
The story of Valley of the Wolves includes US army officers selling body parts from captured Iraqis, using Jewish surgeons
The results are manifest in coverage that mostly reflects the AKP agenda - and duly affects public opinion. Why else would Valley of the Wolves, whose cast includes US actors Billy Zane and Gary Busey, become the most successful Turkish film ever? The story includes American army officers selling body parts from captured Iraqis - with Jewish surgeons removing them! No wonder the AKP cabinet took their wives to the opening gala.

The party has also done its best to Islamise the bureaucracy. Even in Istanbul, post-office employees now stop work for Friday prayers, and civil servants are no longer expected to work a full day during Ramadan.

And just to make sure, the AKP has literally bought public opinion in poor urban areas by distributing food packages, paid for by contributions from big business.

Although the wind is blowing their way, I doubt if more than 15 per cent of the population really want a full-blown Sunni republic. But the AKP is being patient. Gul and Erdogan are clearly willing to defer Turkey’s Islamisation if they can advance Europe’s.

Think about it,

Hosea 6

1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2 Peter 3

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Coming up on the third day.

[Oberon]

Business as usual then.

[geetrue]

More people need to understand who wrote the script ... God

More people need to understand that man is just man and God is God ...

More people need to worship Him in Spirit and in truth and not worry about
what God is doing in the world, but what God is doing in their personal lives.

But I accept your report as just that an observation of life ...

Did you ever wonder if all of this has happened before and something went
wrong as things sometimes do ... So God decided to replay the entire scene to get it right this time.

I think I'll go start a cult or something

[Letum]

Originally Posted by geetrue

I think I'll go start a cult or something

Perhaps you are already in one, or close enough.
The only difference between a religion and a cult is its age and size.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Although the wind is blowing their way, I doubt if more than 15 per cent of the population really want a full-blown Sunni republic. But the AKP is being patient. Gul and Erdogan are clearly willing to defer Turkey’s Islamisation if they can advance Europe’s.

You can stop doubting, Rockstar. They have changed the constitutional rules by which to elect the president, he will not be elected by the parliament anymore, but by the people. This sounds nice and well in european ears (look how democratic Turkey is!), but estimations on how many Turks will elect the fundamentalist candidate in a vote are in the range of 70%, which by experience I have collected inside the country, and guts feeling, I tend to confirm.

The AKP leaders have understood that democracy is the best weapon to erode secularism from within. It also casts a spell that will bring the EU on their side in doing that. The EU already demanded the military - the only obstacle currently that protects secularism from fundamentalism, to step back and don'T interfere - the EU demands the military to ignore the turkish constitution , and in fact actively to violate it, because the unique role of the military in Turkeyand it's protective guarding function against Islam is anchored in the kemalist constitution.

"Democracy" at all cost (even suicidal ones), has become an obsession and fetsih of the West.

Those 15% you mention would have been a value I would estimate for the votings in the largets cities of the country, the toruist centres, the metropoles that give themselves a more Western face and make more economical income by leaning to the West. However, clearly more than three quarters of the Trks are living in rural areas, outside the major cities - and here I always found fundamntalism and conservatism to be the running drive in people's mind.

I expect that in the next elections it does not need the queer Turkish election laws to turn a one third share in votes into a two third share in parliamentary seats for the AKP. It all depends if they can mobilize the voters in the rural areas to greater extend than during the last elections. If so, they will have a substantial majority, I'm sure. If not, it might become something like the last time, if the opposition parties are not able to unite so that they do not loose so many votes and seats due to the 10% hurdle. So, the secular powers in Turkey have it in their own hands - selfishness and egocentric demand for power by each of the many candidates they have will destroy them. Becoming united will keep their chances.

This is the reasion why during the early days of the protests we saw two weeks ago, TV in many rurals areas was switched off. The ruling AKP and Erdogan did not wish their heartlands to become aware that there also is an opposing voice to ongoing Islamisation in Turkey.

Ironically it may need a hardcore Islamist Turkey to make more people in Europe aware of the threat Turkey's EU membership means for Europe.

In Berlin, meanwhile, a new huge mosque has been built, with towers pointing high into the sky. Muhammedan towers (towers throughout history has been seen as symbols of ruling, dominating, and conquest)overlooking huge parts of a "Christian" city - and politicians celebrate and think this is illustrating how tolerant they are and how tolerant Islam is.
Maybe they are simply too stupid as if they are worth to be defended anymore. Disgusting. I have spend good time in recent months helping to legally prevent the enlargement of a local mosque over here, and there are indications that our opponents are giving it up, for they played dirty tricks and thus have a very weak legal position. Looking at Berlin, some of us feel like being stabbed by our own people from behind.

And a short anecdote: short time ago, Merkel gave chirac a gift, an old beer mug with illustrations of Napoleon delivering Muslim armies a crushing defeat. Ankara was frothing with rage, and is said to have fired a lot of aggressive rethorics behind the official stage, and both at Berlin and Paris. Unfortunately they survived their temporary breathing problems.

[DanCanovas]

interesting read skybird.

[gnirtS]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

But they said it was going to be revived roman empire they said they knew how to better interpret it themselves.

Turkey’s leaders plan Muslim Europe

<Rest of the bull**** snipped>

The article if you could even call it that is nothing more than rabid paranoia. Then getting to the bottom you find more religious quote bollocks and in the signature.

Nothing more than 1 religion side ill founded paranoia of anothers.

Also, pasting entire articles verbatim without source isn't good for debate. Nobody can see the original author or organisation to get a feeling for what their motives are.

[Oberon]

Countdown to Avon Lady arrival in Five...Four...

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Countdown to Avon Lady arrival in Five...Four...

We're talking about, Europe, right?

OK.

Ten billion and three Mississippi....

Ten billion and two Mississippi....

Ten billion and one Mississippi....

Nine billion nine hundred and ninety nine million nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine Mississippi....

Nine billion nine hundred and ninety nine million nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety eight Mississippi....

Nine billion nine hundred and ninety nine million nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety seven Mississippi....

:p

[DanCanovas]

im always waiting for an Avon Lady response haha ! :rotfl:

[Oberon]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Nice one AL!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

We're talking about, Europe, right?

OK.

Ten billion and three Mississippi....

Ten billion and two Mississippi....

Ten billion and one Mississippi....

Nine billion nine hundred and ninety nine million nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine Mississippi....

Nine billion nine hundred and ninety nine million nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety eight Mississippi....

Nine billion nine hundred and ninety nine million nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety seven Mississippi....

:p

Coulda put my house on it

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by geetrue

More people need to understand who wrote the script ... God

More people need to understand that man is just man and God is God ...

More people need to worship Him in Spirit and in truth and not worry about
what God is doing in the world, but what God is doing in their personal lives.

But I accept your report as just that an observation of life ...

Did you ever wonder if all of this has happened before and something went
wrong as things sometimes do ... So God decided to replay the entire scene to get it right this time.

I think I'll go start a cult or something

Sounds like an advertisement for being fat dumb and happy! No thanks.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Coulda put my house on it

What? The Mississippi?

Does your house look like this?

[DanCanovas]

haha look at that big fat American boat! :rotfl: