More aircrafts to DCS: Korea?

[Minoslas]

Interesting discover on the WW2 russian forum section, on a post over WW2 develop, folks tell over a 3D modeller with name Psy06 and your team. That was ones of the "WW2 1944" project, but now that was fired and unemployed. The surprise coming with see your work on exposed on DevianArt.

The Russian forum post, with a link to a 3D modeller forum (Military-meshes):
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...&postcount=316

Вроде бы говорилось, что бывшие сотрудники RRG Studios будут работать на ЕД, однако psy06 не повезло...
http://www.military-meshes.com/forum...ll=1#post76144

Psy06 DeviantArt Pics Galery
http://psy06.deviantart.com/gallery/

That team can be the makers of the DCS: Fw-190D-9 cockpit




and the Bf-109K-4 cockpit.





But the surprise coming with review your other works, that show new planes cockpits to DCS: World:

Mig-15Bis Cockpit (Korea?)




La-9 Cockpit and plane (Korea?)




Yak-9U (Korea?)




and the Me-262 WW2 cockpit show in the old RRG Studios Kick-starter.





Others works show a il-4, a I-16 and others models to the die Battle of Moscow (BoM) simulator (Ubi).

The same Psy06 "confirm" that aircraft's and cockpits was be make to DCS: World and the dead BOM
http://www.military-meshes.com/forum...ll=1#post76147

I-16 and external il-4 now are belong to 777, and maybe appear ever at they products. All DCS models course you will see at game.

I think, based on that (My speculations), we can be new future incoming surprises

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Minoslas

I think, based on that (My speculations), we can be new future incoming surprises

*Rant on*
And that is exactly the big problem with DCS in my opinion. Future surprises. It seems no one really knows where the journey is going and everybody is just randomly developing a pet project whether it fits into any scenario or not. I wish there was a focus on a certain scenario and when that is done people can develop another one. Right now we have a bit modern era, a bit Vietnam, a bit WWII and a bit Korea but nothing to an extend where one could build realistic campaigns or even just missions. The development goes into twenty directions at once without any focus whatsoever. That means of course that we have long waiting times between projects of the same theater. The P51 is still flying around alone for example. I know that something is in the works about WWII but for how long has the 51 been available now and still no adversaries in the sky.
We'll get a MiG 21 (hardly usable in modern day conflicts) but no F4, F8 or any other Vietnam era aircraft where this plane really belongs. We'll get some trainers which can hardly be used in any realistic scenarios and so on...
Guys, focus on one scenario and fill it with life and don't hand out 20 different projects that can't really interact with each other. If I can't build proper missions with the material I have then I'll lose interest in the whole game. But that requires coordinated effort not just for aircraft but also for maps and ground objects. I think we'll get a ton of patchwork which doesn't become one piece when put together (if that makes any sense).

*Rant over*

[eddie]

[Minoslas]

ED don´t force to the Partners or 3rd Party to a exclusive time periods, they free to build as you like.

The actual tendences has show a moving to the WW2 period (remember, P-51D has no alone, Fw-190D-9 was release some days ago). Others periods can be boost in the future with new projects and Teatres with the EDGE release and the SDK.

The "actual" plan release date of 2014/2015 (ED forum / present day)
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893

Release date List:
2014
-Mig-21Bis 1.2.9X (Aug 2014) Leatherneck
-Hawk T.M1 1.2.9X (Aug/Sep 2014) VEAO
-AH-1G (Late 2014) Belsimtek
-Su-27 AFM (Fall 2014) ED
-Messerschmitt Bf-109K-4 (Oct 2014) ED
-Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX (Dec 2014) ED
-Curtiss P-40F KittyHawk (Dec 2014) VEAO
-L-39 Albatros ZA/ZO (Late 2014) Albatros Team
-L-39 Albatros C (Late 2014) Albatros Team
-EDGE 2.0.0 (Late 2014) ED
-NTTR Nevada 2.0.0? (Late 2014) ED

2015
-Grumman F8F Bearcat – (Feb 2015) VEAO
-Republic P-47D-30 Thunderbolt (Mar 2015) ED
-Supermarine Spitfire Mk XIV (Abr 2015) VEAO
-Normandy Theater with Period AI Units (May 2015) ED
-HA-1112 Buchon (May 2015) VEAO
-Short Tucano (July 2015) VEAO
-Grob G115E Tutor (July 2015) VEAO
-Eurofighter (Q2 2015) VEAO
-Hawker Typhoon – Q3 2015 VEAO

That list can change / update with the time.

[Oberon]

I think the thing needed a lot at the moment is new theatres, but I think that most people are holding back until EDGE is released, hopefully tools for map generation for 3rd party companies will be released with it, that would make the most sense.

[Schroeder]

@Minoslas
Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on you or the game I just think it could achieve so much more with more coordinated effort.
When I go through your list for example I'm not really excited, I'll show you why:
Release date List:
2014
-Mig-21Bis 1.2.9X (Aug 2014) Leatherneck has no proper use in any modern scenario
-Hawk T.M1 1.2.9X (Aug/Sep 2014) VEAO A Trainer with no proper use in any scenario
-AH-1G (Late 2014) Belsimtek So far the Huey gunner AI (which should be much simpler than an attack helicopter AI) is awful how is that supposed to work with an attack helicopter?
-Su-27 AFM (Fall 2014) ED
-Messerschmitt Bf-109K-4 (Oct 2014) ED
-Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX (Dec 2014) ED
-Curtiss P-40F KittyHawk (Dec 2014) VEAO
-L-39 Albatros ZA/ZO (Late 2014) Albatros Team A Trainer with no proper use in any scenario
-L-39 Albatros C (Late 2014) Albatros Team A Trainer with no proper use in any scenario
-EDGE 2.0.0 (Late 2014) ED
-NTTR Nevada 2.0.0? (Late 2014) ED A map with no proper use in any scenario except training

2015
-Grumman F8F Bearcat – (Feb 2015) VEAO A navy fighter that saw hardly any combat so it's of not much use for realistic scenarios
-Republic P-47D-30 Thunderbolt (Mar 2015) ED
-Supermarine Spitfire Mk XIV (Abr 2015) VEAO
-Normandy Theater with Period AI Units (May 2015) ED
-HA-1112 Buchon (May 2015) VEAO A fighter that saw hardly any real combat so it's of not much use for realistic scenarios
-Short Tucano (July 2015) VEAO A Trainer with no proper use in any scenario
-Grob G115E Tutor (July 2015) VEAO A Trainer with no proper use in any scenario
-Eurofighter (Q2 2015) VEAO
-Hawker Typhoon – Q3 2015 VEAO

You see, almost 50% of these aircraft have no realistic purpose in this game. How many trainers do we actually need? What is the purpose of a trainer in a sim? A trainer is usually used to have an instructor teach a student how to fly. That can't be done properly in a sim so what are they good for and why so many? Besides I can crash as many combat aircraft as I like in a sim so I don't really need a "trainer" to graduate from.
What are we supposed to do in Nevada? Land on the strip of Las Vegas and gamble?
It's good to see that WWII is getting some attention, especially that ground objects and a map are involved as well. That is a huge step in the right direction because planes are one thing but missing ground objects can still kill a scenario so kudos for that, but WWII has been done a hundred times over by other flight sims and I was hoping to finally get something for those campaigns which aren't covered by good sims yet: Vietnam and Korea....But hey, what I want is irrelevant and if the majority wants WWII then WWII is the way to go to generate income for further development.

Again, I think DCS aircraft are the best we have right now but a lot of attention just dies because it's so damn difficult to really build interesting scenarios with what we have which also shows in the less than stellar selection of multi-player servers. Most of them run weapons training missions. We'll properly get some good WWII action in the future though so I'm looking forward for that.
Again, you guys are doing a great job, it's just that it hurts me to see so much good go to waste because of the lack of focus.

[Oberon]

I wouldn't knock the 21 too much, it's still in service with quite a few nations, including Romania (just), and Bulgaria. Fair points on the others though, especially the trainers, but what I suspect is that they have been chosen because it's easier to get access to them than it is to get access to modern front line military aircraft.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I wouldn't knock the 21 too much, it's still in service with quite a few nations, including Romania (just), and Bulgaria. Fair points on the others though, especially the trainers, but what I suspect is that they have been chosen because it's easier to get access to them than it is to get access to modern front line military aircraft.

The 21 is like the Huey. They are Aircraft that are at the very end of their useful life and mostly retired by now. Some are still going strong but they are hardly state of the art anymore. Both aircraft are at their best in a Vietnam or 70ies-80ies scenario. Hence my hope to see some Vietnam action in the future but that would require a lot more aircraft and of course a proper map.
Same is true for the F86 and the MiG 15 which got their fame in Korea. The only realistic scenario right now would be a border clash in Europe in the mid 50ies as far as maps go. But for that we don't have the right ground objects so missions will always be fake workarounds were some equipment has to be replaced by modern stuff....

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

The 21 is like the Huey. They are Aircraft that are at the very end of their useful life and mostly retired by now. Some are still going strong but they are hardly state of the art anymore. Both aircraft are at their best in a Vietnam or 70ies-80ies scenario. Hence my hope to see some Vietnam action in the future but that would require a lot more aircraft and of course a proper map.
Same is true for the F86 and the MiG 15 which got their fame in Korea. The only realistic scenario right now would be a border clash in Europe in the mid 50ies as far as maps go. But for that we don't have the right ground objects so missions will always be fake workarounds were some equipment has to be replaced by modern stuff....

Oh agreed, they're not top of the line vehicles that's for certain but they are still in service nevertheless and can make for an interesting 'underdog' scenario where the odds are stacked against you. MiG-21 vs F-15 for example, or so forth. However, the ground objects and theatre issue is definite one that needs looking at, I mean there's some old gear in service that still counts, AAA trucks and the like, but terrain...yeah, you can't really pretend that Kiev is downtown Hanoi...even if they've both spent a not insignificant amount of time on fire.

[Minoslas]

The "proper" Sceneries only can start of build with ED release the EDGE engine SDKs to the 3rd parties, and take time to build them.

The "no realistic purpose in this game" has a biased opinion. Many people has happy of realistic training plans (with the planed proper maps) and that planes has a very good starting point and training to the develop 3rd parties teams, to learn DCS: world develop issues and a steep to build more advanced airplanes (and vehicles and ships in the future). Nevada (NTTR Red Flag Training grounds) was a promise to the old A-10C beta backers and ED honour them, with the first EDGE based scenery.

And some details:
- Grumman F8F Bearcat (combat actions on Indochina and Vietnam war)
- HA-1112 Buchon (combat action on Spanish Protectorate / Western Sahara / IFNI war)

[Schroeder]

This will be my last post regarding that issue as I don't want to sound like a little whiner or upset you (for which it is probably too late...).

Originally Posted by Minoslas

The "proper" Sceneries only can start of makes with ED release the EDGE engine SDKs to the 3rd parties, and take time to build them.

Many people has happy of realistic training plans (with the planed proper maps) and that planes has a very good starting point and training to the develop 3rd parties teams, to learn DCS: world develop issues and a steep to build more advanced airplanes (and vehicles and ships in the future).

OK, these are valid points which I accept.

Nevada (NTTR Red Flag Training grounds) was a promise to the old A-10C beta backers and ED honour them, with the first EDGE based scenery.

As I said in my earlier post: A map with no proper use in any scenario except training. It's good that ED honors it's promises, that is something that is not a given anymore these days with most other companies but I still wonder why the promise was given in the first place to make a map which seems to be a very time consuming project that is only used for training (which could be done on any map in my opinion) while for example an Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan or Korea map (or just parts of those as the whole countries might be way too much work to be done with reasonable amounts of resources) could have been used for both training and realistic combat scenarios.

And some details:
- Grumman F8F Bearcat (combat actions on Indochina and Vietnam war)
- HA-1112 Buchon (combat action on Spanish Protectorate / Western Sahara / IFNI war)

I wrote that they saw hardly any combat not that they didn't see combat at all.
There were just about 200 F8 in Indochina/Vietnam yes. But how many people do even know about that?

I would wager that hardly anybody outside Spain has ever heard of the conflicts the Buchon served in. I at least had not until I looked a bit deeper into the Buchon.
My point here is that I think it makes for better sales and scenarios to develop planes that served in bigger conflicts and that are widely known to people worldwide and not some aircraft that saw very limited action in places that are not of big interest to a world audience and can hardly be replicated with the map(s) we have.

But I guess I don't know the stuff better than you guys so just do your thing the way you think it's best. I'm looking forward to the new engine and maybe you will prove me wrong with tons of good stuff in the future (I would be happy about that as I think DCS is a gem that just needs a little bit of polishing to really shine).