[Sailor Steve]

Thursday, November 13, 1919

PARIS PEACE CONFERENCE

M Pichon’s Room, Quai d’Orsay, Paris, 10:30

Meeting of the Heads of Delegations of the Five Great Powers.


M Pichon states that M Clemenceau had asked him to apologize for being unable to be present at the opening of the meeting. He proposes to start with the second item on the agenda, viz; the draft telegram to Sir George Clerk.


1. The Council ha before it a draft telegram to Sir George Clerk prepared by Sir Eyre Crowe.

Sir Eyre Crowe calls the attention of the Council to the last paragraph of the draft telegram. He had thought it necessary to call the attention of the Hungarian Government very specially to the necessity of its troops evacuating the Comitadjes of Western Hungary, which had been given to Austria by the Treaty of Saint-Germain.

(It is decided to approve the draft telegram to Sir George Clerk.


2. The Council has before it a note from the Drafting Committee dated November 3rd and a note from the British Delegation dated November 11th.

Sir Eyre Crowe states that the Supreme Council at its meeting of November 1st had decided to obtain the advice of the Drafting Committee on the draft note prepared by the Aeronautical Representatives in answer to a communication of the German Government dated October 12th. The Drafting Committee, having alluded to the fact that the question was already covered by a paragraph of the protocol to be signed by the German Plenipotentiaries, had concluded that it was useless to send that note. Since then, the question had again been discussed by the Aeronautical experts and the Drafting Committee. They had come to the conclusion that the protocol did not cover all the violations which the Germans had committed under that heading. Under these conditions it appeared advisable to reply to the German note of October 12th, and he thinks that it will be necessary to put the question once more before the Drafting Committee.

S de Martino agrees that Sir Eyre Crowe’s proposal is very opportune. It is a most important point which they should not leave in the air, and he insists that the proposal of the British representative be taken into consideration.

Captain Roper says it is indeed extremely advisable that the views of the Supreme Council on that point should be made clear. There are, however, two ways of proceeding: they can either reply directly to the German Armistice Commission, or confine themselves to sending instructions to General Masterman. The draft instructions can be sent immediately, but the Drafting Committee is of the opinion that it would be advisable to await the coming into force of the Treaty before answering the Germans.

Sir Eyre Crowe says that the Drafting Committee might prepare at the same time draft instructions for General Masterman and a reply to the German Armistice Commission, which will be sent at a later date.

Mr Polk wishes to ask to what extent the Germans can dispose of their aeronautical materiel, balloons, Zeppelins, etc.

General Groves states that the Germans cannot dispose of anything which might be considered military or naval aeronautical materiel.

Mr Polk inquires who is the court of appeal on the military or naval character of that materiel?

General Groves answers that it is the Aeronautical Commission of Control.

(It is decided to entrust the Drafting Committee to prepare in agreement with the technical experts.

(1) Draft instructions for General Masterman;

(2) A reply to the German note of October 12th, concerning German aeronautical materiel.)


3. The Council has before it a draft letter to the German Delegation regarding elections in Upper Silesia.

Mr Polk says that the elections which have just taken place in Upper Silesia are partly favorable to the Poles. Would it not be inadvisable under these circumstances, to oblige the Plebiscite Commission to hold these elections in all cases null and void?

M Laroche says he has asked himself the same question. The Polish Press considers those elections a great success for the Polish cause. The German papers, however, bring out the fact that the Poles had not obtained half the votes recorded. From a legal point of view it seems difficult to annul the elections only in part; he thinks it better to stick to the principle of declaring all elections void. The Plebiscite Commission might take on the spot all necessary administrative measures to maintain, in extraordinary cases the election in certain municipalities.

Sir Eyre Crowe thinks that Mr Polk’s observation might be satisfied by changing the last paragraph. They might use instead of saying, “That the Powers will consider as null and void”, the words, “That they will hold themselves entitled to consider null and void, etc.” On the other hand, the Powers wished this note to put an end to the exchange of correspondence with the Germans on that question. He therefore thinks it more advisable to omit the paragraph beginning with the words, “in this connection the observations, etc.”; as a matter of fact that paragraph contains allegations of fact which the Germans will be tempted to answer. If this omission is approved, the fifth paragraph beginning with the words, “It is, however, a matter of surprise, etc.” might well be placed at the end of paragraph 2 which begins with the words, “if the Versailles Treaty, etc.”

(It was decided to approve the draft letter to the German Delegation concerning municipal elections in Upper Silesia, with the following changes:

(1) Omission of paragraph 4, beginning with the words, “In this connection, etc.”

(2) Paragraph 5, beginning with the words, “It is, however, a matter of surprise, etc.” should be placed at the end of paragraph 2, which begins with the words, “If the Versailles Treaty, etc.”

(3) In the last paragraph replace the words, “that they will consider as null and void” by the words, “That they will hold themselves entitled to consider null and void, etc.”


4. The Council has before it a letter from General Nollet to the President of the Conference, dated November 1st.

Colonel Rote reads and comments upon the letter from General Nollet.

Sir Eyre Crowe says this is an important question, and he wishes to know if the proposal made by General Nollet had the approval of the French Government.

M Pichon said that the French Government had confined itself to communicating the letter of General Nollet to the Council without taking any position in the matter.

Sir Eyre Crowe says that the questions with reference to the organization of these Commissions had been discussed very thoroughly and the draft which had been finally arrived at was the result of a compromise. It had been decided that the allowances would only be given in virtue of the function exercised by the officers, without taking into account their rank or situation. This question was an important one because its solution affected the problem of Reparations. If they now decided to give special allowances to officers on the ground that they were General Officers or because they were the senior representatives of their country, they would be departing entirely from the principles followed up to this time. He would very much like to have the opinion of the French Government on that point, on the one hand because the French element was very strongly represented on the Commissions of Control operating in Germany, and because, on the other hand, it had seemed to him that the French Government is opposed in principle to any measure calculated to diminish the Separations fund. Should the Council be of the opinion that the request of General Nollet should be answered, he personally would not oppose it, but he wishes to point out that they would be committing themselves to a new principle on a question which affected the problem of Reparations.

(At this point M Clemenceau enters the room.)

M Clemenceau agrees with Sir Eyre Crowe that it is advisable to adhere to the ruling which they had previously fixed. The arguments given by General Nollet do not seem very convincing. They had decided to remunerate, not the rank or situation, but the function, and he does not believe that there is any reason to change their attitude on that point.

Colonel Roye said that it was to be feared that, on account of the existing high cost of living in Germany, the allowances to officers mentioned in the letter of General Nollet might not be sufficient.

S de Martino says it is understood that no negative conclusion will be arrived at on this day, and that the question should be referred back to General Nollet for further information.

M Clemenceau said General Nollet’s proposal does not seem to him to have sufficient grounds; but if he gave the Council some better arguments in a further note, he personally would not object to examining the question anew.

(It is decided to adjourn the question raised by the letter of General Nollet dated November 1st, pending further information to be furnished by him.


5. The Council has before it a draft note to the Romanian Government prepared by M. Berthelot.

M Berthelot reads the draft note.

M Clemenceau wishes to inform the Council that he has been asked to receive General Coanda and Mr Antonescu; he will receive them that afternoon, and he intends to confine himself to advising them to accept without further delay all the demands which were formulated by the Conference.

Mr Polk asks whether, in making reference in the second last paragraph of the letter to: “arrangements to be concluded with Hungary, Bulgaria and Russia” they did not seem to commit themselves to giving Bessarabia to Romania, in the event of the latter country complying with the Council’s demands.

M Berthelot does not think so; the question certainly had been discussed by a Commission which had come to the unanimous decision to give the whole of Bessarabia to Romania, but the Council had not taken any decision to that effect, and its liberty of action remained unimpaired.

M Clemenceau states they will wait before taking a final resolution until all the delegates have received their instructions.

Sir Eyre Crowe states he has already received his.

Mr. Polk thought that the instructions he already had gave him sufficient authority to accept the draft under discussion. He would, however, let the Council know his decision at the next meeting.

S de Martino says that, as far as he is concerned, he expects to receive his instructions that very evening. He feels the greatest confidence in the outcome of the interview which M Clemenceau would have that afternoon with General Coanda and Mr Antonescu. He expresses the hope that M Clemenceau will speak to them with the firmness which he so well knows how to employ, and feels certain that he will obtain the results the Council desires. General Coanda is very intimate with Mr Bratiano and capable of having a good influence upon him. He wonders whether it is wise to discuss, as they are doing in the draft before them, the behavior of Romania during the war. They are running the risk of starting a polemic, for Romania will certainly be sure to answer that she had herself been abandoned by Russia.

M Clemenceau remarks that they also had been abandoned by Russia, which had not prevented their carrying on the war to an end. Three months before the Bucharest Peace he had warned Mr Bratiano that he was committing his country to a disastrous policy. Mr Bratiano had protested that he would never conclude a separate peace, a protest which had not prevented his doing so.

Sir Eyre Crowe asks whether a period of six days is not a little short.

M Clemenceau replies he thinks there was a point in giving the Romanians a rather short period; they will thus bring them to ask for a prolongation which the Council would grant. But the very fact of their having asked for a prolongation would, as a matter of fact, commit the Romanians to an answer.

S de Martino thinks it will be necessary to impose upon the Romanians a definite time for the evacuation of the Hungarian territory to the east of the Theiss.

M Clemenceau wishes to know whether the Council would give him authority to acquaint unofficially the Romanian delegates he is to see that afternoon with the draft under discussion.

Mr Polk says he will very willingly give this authority, especially as this document seems to him remarkably well drafted.

Sir Eyre Crowe asks what their attitude will be should the Romanian delegates, after having been unofficially acquainted with the draft note, ask for a postponement of the official communication of the note.

M Clemenceau thinks that they should in any case send the note as soon as it has been definitely approved.

(It is decided to authorize M Clemenceau to communicate unofficially to the Romanian delegates the substance of the draft note to the Romanian Government.)


6. Mr Polk wishes to ask, as a matter of information, whether the situation has been modified since the Luxemburg question had been discussed in the Council. He had been informed that the British Government had recognized the Government of the Grand Duchess.

M. Clemenceau has not heard that there had been any such recognition on the part of the British Government. Great Britain had only sent a representative to the wedding of the Grand Duchess. He would, however, be glad if Sir Eyre Crowe would acquaint himself with the exact situation. The situation as between France and Luxemburg was as follows: The majority of the Luxemburgers was favorable to a “rapproachement” with France, but the French did not wish to commit themselves to a policy which might involve them in difficulties with Belgium. As for the present Government of Luxemburg, the Grand Duchess is German by birth, and he believes, by sympathy. She is, however, obliged at this time to appear very Francophile. There are no present difficulties between France and Belgium on the general question. The only question in dispute is a certain railroad administered by the Alsace-Lorraine Railroads, which Bismarck had taken away from France in 1871. The Belgians are claiming this railroad, which the French cannot give them. This is a very small difficulty, which furthermore, is on the point of being settled. It is essential that the Principal Powers should act in accord concerning the recognition of the present Luxemburg Government.

M Berthelot says the Belgians have asked the French whether they intend to recognize the Grand Ducal Government. They had answered it is for the Belgians first to take a decision on that point. The Belgians then said they preferred to abstain provisionally from recognizing the Government of the Grand Duchess, and the French have based their attitude upon the Belgian. The sending of a representative by the British Government to the wedding of the Grand Duchess had been a mere act of courtesy. Nevertheless from information they had received, it would appear that there had been at the same time recognition of the Luxemburg Government by Great Britain.

Sir Eyre Crowe says he will get information on the subject and communicate it to the Council.

(The question is then adjourned.)


7. Mr Polk wishes to say a few words to the Council on the question of German oil tank ships. On September 27th, the Supreme Council by a vote to which he was a party, had decided to ask the Germans to deliver the 14 German oil tank ships which were lying at Hamburg. Since that date he had several times discussed the question with Sir Eyre Crowe and Mr Henry Berenger. There was a good deal of feeling in America on the question: for that reason he earnestly wishes that, pending the outcome of negotiations, the ships under discussion should stay where they are. He thinks his proposal will not raise any difficulties, as he hopes to arrive at a solution within three or four days.

M Clemenceau asks what are his objections to these ships being taken to an Allied port?

Mr Polk says that certain declarations Mr Hoover had made had given the impression in America that the fate of these ships was already settled. Out of that arose the question which was the object of the negotiations then in progress.

Sir Eyre Crowe states that in the protocol submitted for the German signature the Council had confirmed the decision of September 27th by asking the delivery of all these ships, without specifying them by name. It does not seem possible to ask the Germans now to keep these ships; that would be to publish a difference of views between the Allies. It is to be hoped, however, that the Germans have not yet delivered the ships in question. If by chance they had already done so it would be sufficient to instruct the Naval Armistice Commission to retain these ships without doing anything with them for the moment. He hoped Mr Polk would not see any objection to this procedure.

Mr Polk says that the record of the meeting of September 27th shows that those ships were to be delivered to the Allies, but did not specify under what conditions the temporary operation of these ships should be regulated. He fears that if these ships are to be delivered by the Germans in the Firth of Forth a wrong interpretation of this measure would spread in America.

M Clemenceau asks that the discussion be adjourned to the following day.

(The meeting then adjourns.)