[Sailor Steve]

I find it interesting to see that this discussion has been mostly between Germans. Please allow and American with both British and German heritage to butt in. Germany is not alone in committing atrocities, on both the personal and the national level. It's easy to point fingers, even at yourself. Sometimes it's deserved and sometimes it's not. Even when it is deserved the best you can do is learn from it and move on. Yes, the Nazi regime was evil. Yes, wholesale atrocities were committed. Yes, atrocities were committed at lower levels, and not just by the Germans.

On the other hand I think that Germany sometimes goes too far in trying to forget. The example of this that I experienced is the refusal to allow the swastika to appear anywhere, even on model airplane and ship kits. I think that's going a bit too far. But I don't live in Germany, so I don't know what the climate is like there.

My advice is this: Never forget what happened, because, as English philosopher Edmund Burke said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". But don't let it run your lives either. Not every German was a bad guy; not even a lot of party members. Don't forget that Hitler came to power by promising to right the wrongs done by the British and French at the end of the Great War and make Germany great again. As far as most Germans could tell he did exactly that, so people were willing to follow him, and even revere him. Most Germans, including those in the military, didn't know about the atrocities. All they knew was that their country was at war and they needed to do their duty.

People are people. We are influenced by what we see and hear, and a charismatic leader can convince people he is trying to help when actually he is leading down the path to evil. A lot of the time he'll even believe it himself. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". Or, as a friend of mine once said, "Adolph Hitler wasn't the villain of World War Two, he was the hero. Just ask him."

The real bottom line is that it could happen again, and it could happen in Germany, in France, in Britain, or in America. We need to learn from history. We need to watch ourselves, and we need to watch each other. Yes, a great evil happened seventy years ago. It happened because some evil people got into power in a major nation, and because they were able to fool the majority. The majority can blame themselves, but it is wrong for others to blame them, including their children.

I like Das Boot. I like Silent Hunter. I play naval and airwar games, and I play all sides. I'll even take the Vietnamese side in '60s airwar, even though I fought in that war. I like the machines, and I admire the men who manned them. That's my bottom line.

Now, what was this about modern German subs?