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Oberon · 07-29-13, 04:41 AM

Right, my thoughts, and these are purely unqualified, since I have had no experience with the sim other than what clips and bits I've seen.

It looks fantastic. No other way to say it, it ticks all the superlative boxes, and if ROF is anything to go by, it won't be a resource hog either.

I'm still on the fence about it though, primarily because of the subject matter, the Battle of Stalingrad holds not a great deal of interest for me as a flight simulation area, however I am flexible and may yet be drawn into it, however it is not something I will pick up on day one.
I'm still burnt from CloD, even though Oleg has jumped ship and 777 have been brought in, the legacy of what they spent a decade on and what was shipped still haunts them, although I think part of the problem might have been Russian developers on unfamiliar ground, at least with BoS, it's natural territory and it'll be easier for them to source things. The 109 sound demonstration video, for example, is already a thousand times better than the 'lawnmowers' of CloD and vanilla IL2.
There is, however, the question of the RoF sales pitch, and I think this is something that is going to bring an old argument that aired during the dawn of Rise of Flight back to the fore, and that's "How much are you willing to pay for a Combat Flight Sim?"
In IL2 1946, we were spoilt, spoilt rotten, the biggest number of aircraft ever playable in a combat flight simulator, admittedly the result of several years and about three or four addon packs, but even at launch, vanilla IL2 had an impressive array of flyable aircraft.
This was in a different era, graphics are much richer now, so the workload that goes in to individual models is much higher, pilots expect a greater fidelity from their aircraft, so the flight models of some of the Soviet UFOs of 1946 are less excusable by the model sim crowd.
So it takes a greater deal of work to produce an aircraft which is up to the standard expected of a modern simulator, and because of this, the amount of aircraft that comes vanilla in a simulator has lowered over the years.
As it stands, we look to have six aircraft at launch for the standard pack of IL2: BOS - The Bf109F4, Ju-87D3, He-111H6, LaGG-3 (series 29), single seat IL2 AM-38 and Pe-2 (87 and 110 series variants), and there will be the possibility to 'unlock' two more aircraft whilst in game, which will be the Bf109G2 and the Yak-1). So eight in total, eight beautifully modelled aircraft in beautifully modelled environs.

Now, we get to the divisive bit.
There will be two more aircraft which will be available for those who pre-order the 'Premium Edition' the Fw-190A and the La-5), which will also be available for purchase in the shop 'after launch'.
Now this is obviously going to cause upset in a community which until now has been used to receiving all the aircraft on launch through one payment. However those who are used to the Rise of Flight model will be aware of the advantages and disadvantages of this system.
For myself, I am still on the fence about it, whilst I can see the need for a smaller amount of higher detail aircraft, and the financial feedback this gives the developers, I feel that this may lead to accusations of 'pay to win', particularly in the case of the Fw-190 which is a potent weapon in an online arena.

Secondly there is the campaign, I think Heinkill has posted a good 'Yay and Boo' summary on the simhq forum here:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...os#Post3800335

Personally I'm not expecting a great deal from the campaign, as it's something that both CloD and RoF have fallen over on, and it is very unlikely that there will ever be a campaign that will be able to hold a candle to that of Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory, Falcon 4 or even the Enemy Engaged series. However it looks like they're trying to go in the right direction, and if they can even manage something like the IL2 1946s campaign system, then they will be on a much better path than they were with CloD. RoF looks like it's trying to go on that route, so hopefully 777 will bring some of that influence to bear, however I fear that it will suffer from the 'lifelessness' that has plagued modern flight sims. It's a hard thing to acutely define, Skybird has touched on it a few times when he has written about the likes of DCS or RoF, and I can feel it too, but it's hard to know how to define it. However when one has played a few missions in a campaign of Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory, and then goes for a few missions in Rise of Flight, then, aside from the obvious differences in era, you do notice something that just isn't quite there.
Another big concern about the campaign, and this is something that RedOctober1984 with his tin cup and string dial-up connection will be the most frustrated by, is that, like Rise of Flight, there will be the requirement for an 'online' connection for the historical campaign which will make up '70% of the overall new IL-2 Sturmovik experience' and is 'the key component of the initial game'. So whilst you will be able to fly in 'Offline' mode, you will not be able to fly in the historical campaign. Quick Mission Builder and Custom Single Player Missions are available in 'Offline' mode, but to lock something as supposedly as big and important as this 'new' historical campaign in online mode strikes me as something that may put some potential new pilots off.

I am quite curious about this new sim, it looks like it has the potential to be what we all wanted CloD to be, however the legacy of CloD will doubtless overshadow this, the fact that it was dropped so quickly after launch and is now dependent upon a third party to make it half-way decent...well, I know that the new IL2 team won't be like that, 777 have proven themselves a reliable team when it comes to supporting a simulator, but Maddox have got that millstone around their necks. Hopefully BoS will help remove that millstone, and 777 will be able to bring some of their successful work to the IL2 franchise. However, I do not expect this sim to do very well on day one, as many people, remembering CloD, will be waiting for someone else to buy it, so that they can get the review rather than download a multiple gigabyte lemon like vanilla CloD.

07-29-13, 04:41 AM	#5
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Right, my thoughts, and these are purely unqualified, since I have had no experience with the sim other than what clips and bits I've seen. It looks fantastic. No other way to say it, it ticks all the superlative boxes, and if ROF is anything to go by, it won't be a resource hog either. I'm still on the fence about it though, primarily because of the subject matter, the Battle of Stalingrad holds not a great deal of interest for me as a flight simulation area, however I am flexible and may yet be drawn into it, however it is not something I will pick up on day one. I'm still burnt from CloD, even though Oleg has jumped ship and 777 have been brought in, the legacy of what they spent a decade on and what was shipped still haunts them, although I think part of the problem might have been Russian developers on unfamiliar ground, at least with BoS, it's natural territory and it'll be easier for them to source things. The 109 sound demonstration video, for example, is already a thousand times better than the 'lawnmowers' of CloD and vanilla IL2. There is, however, the question of the RoF sales pitch, and I think this is something that is going to bring an old argument that aired during the dawn of Rise of Flight back to the fore, and that's "How much are you willing to pay for a Combat Flight Sim?" In IL2 1946, we were spoilt, spoilt rotten, the biggest number of aircraft ever playable in a combat flight simulator, admittedly the result of several years and about three or four addon packs, but even at launch, vanilla IL2 had an impressive array of flyable aircraft. This was in a different era, graphics are much richer now, so the workload that goes in to individual models is much higher, pilots expect a greater fidelity from their aircraft, so the flight models of some of the Soviet UFOs of 1946 are less excusable by the model sim crowd. So it takes a greater deal of work to produce an aircraft which is up to the standard expected of a modern simulator, and because of this, the amount of aircraft that comes vanilla in a simulator has lowered over the years. As it stands, we look to have six aircraft at launch for the standard pack of IL2: BOS - The Bf109F4, Ju-87D3, He-111H6, LaGG-3 (series 29), single seat IL2 AM-38 and Pe-2 (87 and 110 series variants), and there will be the possibility to 'unlock' two more aircraft whilst in game, which will be the Bf109G2 and the Yak-1). So eight in total, eight beautifully modelled aircraft in beautifully modelled environs. Now, we get to the divisive bit. There will be two more aircraft which will be available for those who pre-order the 'Premium Edition' the Fw-190A and the La-5), which will also be available for purchase in the shop 'after launch'. Now this is obviously going to cause upset in a community which until now has been used to receiving all the aircraft on launch through one payment. However those who are used to the Rise of Flight model will be aware of the advantages and disadvantages of this system. For myself, I am still on the fence about it, whilst I can see the need for a smaller amount of higher detail aircraft, and the financial feedback this gives the developers, I feel that this may lead to accusations of 'pay to win', particularly in the case of the Fw-190 which is a potent weapon in an online arena. Secondly there is the campaign, I think Heinkill has posted a good 'Yay and Boo' summary on the simhq forum here: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...os#Post3800335 Personally I'm not expecting a great deal from the campaign, as it's something that both CloD and RoF have fallen over on, and it is very unlikely that there will ever be a campaign that will be able to hold a candle to that of Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory, Falcon 4 or even the Enemy Engaged series. However it looks like they're trying to go in the right direction, and if they can even manage something like the IL2 1946s campaign system, then they will be on a much better path than they were with CloD. RoF looks like it's trying to go on that route, so hopefully 777 will bring some of that influence to bear, however I fear that it will suffer from the 'lifelessness' that has plagued modern flight sims. It's a hard thing to acutely define, Skybird has touched on it a few times when he has written about the likes of DCS or RoF, and I can feel it too, but it's hard to know how to define it. However when one has played a few missions in a campaign of Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory, and then goes for a few missions in Rise of Flight, then, aside from the obvious differences in era, you do notice something that just isn't quite there. Another big concern about the campaign, and this is something that RedOctober1984 with his tin cup and string dial-up connection will be the most frustrated by, is that, like Rise of Flight, there will be the requirement for an 'online' connection for the historical campaign which will make up '70% of the overall new IL-2 Sturmovik experience' and is 'the key component of the initial game'. So whilst you will be able to fly in 'Offline' mode, you will not be able to fly in the historical campaign. Quick Mission Builder and Custom Single Player Missions are available in 'Offline' mode, but to lock something as supposedly as big and important as this 'new' historical campaign in online mode strikes me as something that may put some potential new pilots off. I am quite curious about this new sim, it looks like it has the potential to be what we all wanted CloD to be, however the legacy of CloD will doubtless overshadow this, the fact that it was dropped so quickly after launch and is now dependent upon a third party to make it half-way decent...well, I know that the new IL2 team won't be like that, 777 have proven themselves a reliable team when it comes to supporting a simulator, but Maddox have got that millstone around their necks. Hopefully BoS will help remove that millstone, and 777 will be able to bring some of their successful work to the IL2 franchise. However, I do not expect this sim to do very well on day one, as many people, remembering CloD, will be waiting for someone else to buy it, so that they can get the review rather than download a multiple gigabyte lemon like vanilla CloD.