SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - Finally! Realistic night surface attacks with darker nights. -June 1944

Bubblehead1980 · 02-26-21, 12:41 AM

TMO with my custom mods, part of my upcoming TMO update.
Since a test mission, used auto target.

So a long term issues from SH stock and into most mods has been the inability to properly conduct submarine in the night surface attack role. This is primarily due the night times being far too light on typical night. In TMO where to make sure escorts are challenging when hunting subs submerged, aggressive etc all escorts are set to veteran skill level. With the oddly light nights, they have Hawkeyes and night surface attacks have to be conduct from long ranges and can't get inside the screen etc. Only way to fix this was to nerf the visuals, which then make them a bit too easy.

Long ago a member of community created a darker nights for TMO that worked wonders. I lost it on my old hard drive and it was not uploaded and the member did not have it either as was on his old pc as well. Luckily, a fellow subsimmmer saw my post and uploaded a darker nights mod from 2014 (may be Armistead's?) and proud to say after some testing, it makes all the difference, without making the TMO escorts pushovers.

I just tested the mod in June 1944, against the convoy Tang attacked on night of June 24/25 in shallows of Koshiki Straits ( I added this convoy as part of upgrade) as it approached Nagasaki. This convoy was six large ships escorted by 12 escorts, in two rings. Now, in the sim they form one large ring, but still until now, impossible to get inside the screen, attack, and if manage to get lucky and do that, impossible to get out without being shot to pieces because it was simply not dark enough to hide, which subs were able to do , their low visibility at night was a major advtange.

An escort moved out of position to check the flanks as they do and I slide into that positon slowly, I was 1900 yards on the bow of a Type D escort, showing my stern. paralleling the merchants in the center for a time. Obviously this was a test mission so I really pushed things, showing broadsides, speeding up etc and in the dark of night was not spotted. I turned to starboard and closed, attacking the fire column of merchants. Fired three at a large troopship and three at a tanker from 2000 yards. Turned away prior to impact, not spotted, large explosions illuminated me as did star shells. Took some gunfire, shell splashes around , radar showed escorts rushing in. I sped off into the night, Main worry was a DE rushing in 3000 yards to port, to the scene of the sinking ships as I fled away. I momentarily dropped speed to cut my wake, he passed on by. I sped back up looking to get out of the "circle" through a gap. Seems a radar equipped escort detected me as APR 1 RWR was going off, we continued to sped away and he lost us.

I moved out for torpedo reload and to assess situation. I then proceed to work my way back inside the screen but was spotted by an aux subchaser at 1700 yards, which opened fire and tried to chase us, but was able to outrun him into darkness. Finally after an hour ws able to sneak back into the convoy fired six bow tubes at second column from 5000 yards and four after at closer target, a large DAKAR MARU merchant. Then sped off, all three targets hit, two sunk, one dead in water. Escorts were all over this time with star shells, Radar equipped one detected me as I tried to slip away, gunfire falling but none closed. Should be noted had just 47 ft below keel, so diving was not an option. Just as I seemed to be clear, out of nowhere came a Matsu class DE closing fast, radar beam flashing the APR. Kicked in the speed as much as possible, breaking 21 knots at one points loading stern tubes in case need to down a down the throat shot. The DE and two escorts behind him chased for some time but since could not spot me, slowly gave up.

After pulling away, could tell had sunk 3 ships, left another dead in water. There were now two left. I it was 0434, been at it since 2300. I decided to move in for one last attack, then head on to finish off the cripple if needed.

After some tense moments, including passing 2100 yards in front of and 1800 behind escorts(I was in the middle, slowly falling into position) and continued on. I found a 9000 ton KOBAYASHI MARU merchant closed to 2100 yards and fired four mark 14's , then went all back full. Torpedoes hit and the merchant was left on fire, drifting, then quickly went under.

Deciding to test the AI, I tried to exit in direction of shallows instead of the deep, riding 5000 yards off cost, esp wary of a promontory which likely had shore batteries. Enemy escorts focused on scene of the sinksings and the seward side, ignoring the starboard side somewhat, in the extreme shallows I slid on by even after tense moments when a previously unseen (or detected on SJ, but it was a clutter) laying to, listening for submerged targets, was about 3000 yards away and suddenly began moving, firing star shells. Then, it dropped depth charges lol. Continued on until lookouts spotted a shore battery, forcing to abandoned the route planned.

The best way out was two escorts, separated by 5000 yards, tooling around searching but along the way, could administer the coup de grace to the freighter from earlier, which I did. The two escorts came looking, one spotted my sub and chased, firing. ID as a Etorofu Class Escort. Had one or two close shells but soon lost sight of us, kept pursuing for 10 nm then turned around.

We escaped with four ships confirmed sunk. I believe it was five but sim did not give credit? It happens at times, there was a grey ship sunk marker.

I am beyond stoked that this sort of thing is now possible in TMO. The visuals are set to default TMO so they are still a threat, but with the dark nights, can now use the subs low visibility to players advantage.

One note is need to test this again when have chance to edit the convoy. When created this convoy(which spawns once, and arrives in the area attacked by tang at historically correct date and time) I set the escorts skill levels to mostly novice and competent, with a few set to poor. This was a fix for this situations along with some nerfing of the visuals prior to having the dark nights. Now this tested was conducted (as mentioned) with the default TMO visual sensors, but will test with most escorts to set veteran and competent, and all set to veteran. I suspect it will still be possible since the light setting in the sim.cfg will be same and the nights dark, perhaps they will be a bit more aggressive . May reduce the spacing. O Kane's book and war patrol describes the convoy as having pretty decent spacing, so did so in the sim.

Screenshots below. Imgur won't work for some reason.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IN...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uA...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5z...-no?authuser=0

02-26-21, 12:41 AM	#1
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 6,922 Downloads: 550 Uploads: 42	Finally! Realistic night surface attacks with darker nights. -June 1944 TMO with my custom mods, part of my upcoming TMO update. Since a test mission, used auto target. So a long term issues from SH stock and into most mods has been the inability to properly conduct submarine in the night surface attack role. This is primarily due the night times being far too light on typical night. In TMO where to make sure escorts are challenging when hunting subs submerged, aggressive etc all escorts are set to veteran skill level. With the oddly light nights, they have Hawkeyes and night surface attacks have to be conduct from long ranges and can't get inside the screen etc. Only way to fix this was to nerf the visuals, which then make them a bit too easy. Long ago a member of community created a darker nights for TMO that worked wonders. I lost it on my old hard drive and it was not uploaded and the member did not have it either as was on his old pc as well. Luckily, a fellow subsimmmer saw my post and uploaded a darker nights mod from 2014 (may be Armistead's?) and proud to say after some testing, it makes all the difference, without making the TMO escorts pushovers. I just tested the mod in June 1944, against the convoy Tang attacked on night of June 24/25 in shallows of Koshiki Straits ( I added this convoy as part of upgrade) as it approached Nagasaki. This convoy was six large ships escorted by 12 escorts, in two rings. Now, in the sim they form one large ring, but still until now, impossible to get inside the screen, attack, and if manage to get lucky and do that, impossible to get out without being shot to pieces because it was simply not dark enough to hide, which subs were able to do , their low visibility at night was a major advtange. An escort moved out of position to check the flanks as they do and I slide into that positon slowly, I was 1900 yards on the bow of a Type D escort, showing my stern. paralleling the merchants in the center for a time. Obviously this was a test mission so I really pushed things, showing broadsides, speeding up etc and in the dark of night was not spotted. I turned to starboard and closed, attacking the fire column of merchants. Fired three at a large troopship and three at a tanker from 2000 yards. Turned away prior to impact, not spotted, large explosions illuminated me as did star shells. Took some gunfire, shell splashes around , radar showed escorts rushing in. I sped off into the night, Main worry was a DE rushing in 3000 yards to port, to the scene of the sinking ships as I fled away. I momentarily dropped speed to cut my wake, he passed on by. I sped back up looking to get out of the "circle" through a gap. Seems a radar equipped escort detected me as APR 1 RWR was going off, we continued to sped away and he lost us. I moved out for torpedo reload and to assess situation. I then proceed to work my way back inside the screen but was spotted by an aux subchaser at 1700 yards, which opened fire and tried to chase us, but was able to outrun him into darkness. Finally after an hour ws able to sneak back into the convoy fired six bow tubes at second column from 5000 yards and four after at closer target, a large DAKAR MARU merchant. Then sped off, all three targets hit, two sunk, one dead in water. Escorts were all over this time with star shells, Radar equipped one detected me as I tried to slip away, gunfire falling but none closed. Should be noted had just 47 ft below keel, so diving was not an option. Just as I seemed to be clear, out of nowhere came a Matsu class DE closing fast, radar beam flashing the APR. Kicked in the speed as much as possible, breaking 21 knots at one points loading stern tubes in case need to down a down the throat shot. The DE and two escorts behind him chased for some time but since could not spot me, slowly gave up. After pulling away, could tell had sunk 3 ships, left another dead in water. There were now two left. I it was 0434, been at it since 2300. I decided to move in for one last attack, then head on to finish off the cripple if needed. After some tense moments, including passing 2100 yards in front of and 1800 behind escorts(I was in the middle, slowly falling into position) and continued on. I found a 9000 ton KOBAYASHI MARU merchant closed to 2100 yards and fired four mark 14's , then went all back full. Torpedoes hit and the merchant was left on fire, drifting, then quickly went under. Deciding to test the AI, I tried to exit in direction of shallows instead of the deep, riding 5000 yards off cost, esp wary of a promontory which likely had shore batteries. Enemy escorts focused on scene of the sinksings and the seward side, ignoring the starboard side somewhat, in the extreme shallows I slid on by even after tense moments when a previously unseen (or detected on SJ, but it was a clutter) laying to, listening for submerged targets, was about 3000 yards away and suddenly began moving, firing star shells. Then, it dropped depth charges lol. Continued on until lookouts spotted a shore battery, forcing to abandoned the route planned. The best way out was two escorts, separated by 5000 yards, tooling around searching but along the way, could administer the coup de grace to the freighter from earlier, which I did. The two escorts came looking, one spotted my sub and chased, firing. ID as a Etorofu Class Escort. Had one or two close shells but soon lost sight of us, kept pursuing for 10 nm then turned around. We escaped with four ships confirmed sunk. I believe it was five but sim did not give credit? It happens at times, there was a grey ship sunk marker. I am beyond stoked that this sort of thing is now possible in TMO. The visuals are set to default TMO so they are still a threat, but with the dark nights, can now use the subs low visibility to players advantage. One note is need to test this again when have chance to edit the convoy. When created this convoy(which spawns once, and arrives in the area attacked by tang at historically correct date and time) I set the escorts skill levels to mostly novice and competent, with a few set to poor. This was a fix for this situations along with some nerfing of the visuals prior to having the dark nights. Now this tested was conducted (as mentioned) with the default TMO visual sensors, but will test with most escorts to set veteran and competent, and all set to veteran. I suspect it will still be possible since the light setting in the sim.cfg will be same and the nights dark, perhaps they will be a bit more aggressive . May reduce the spacing. O Kane's book and war patrol describes the convoy as having pretty decent spacing, so did so in the sim. Screenshots below. Imgur won't work for some reason. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IN...-no?authuser=0 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uA...-no?authuser=0 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5z...-no?authuser=0