Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie1983
This Russian fanboy stance doesn't wash.
The Alfa class were very noisy. The fact they could dive deep and had a high top speed, yeah and? You don't think NATO could build a submarine out of titanium if they wanted to?
OTH radar- has serious limitations. Go and research about it. It's resolution is rather poor to say the least. Of use only for early warning, the Americans had them too.
Don't get wrapped around the axle with what steel or materials subs are made of. Silence is the key driver.
The USSR was broke. Defence spending was what made the Cold war so prolonged. And don't start down the nuclear war line because it's an irrelevance. Both sides had the throw weight to smash each other and still do.
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I wouldnt call myself a "fanboy" however i have been in and around most of the Russian fleet for the last 20 years and in my time i have met with big names in the Russian fleets including Admiral Chernavin and Igor Kurdin
The USSR went broke for many reason unsustainable defence spending was one big problem something that was being addressed but too late plus Gorbachev also made his own political mistakes which Yeltsin made his gains.
i'm well aware of the limitations of OTH radars especially the Duga 1 it could detect launches from the USA but not much else but that's all it really needed to do anyway, the technology developed so fast that by the time the thing was built better systems existed and trace the linear history phased array is a development of this, as i said RAF Flying dales in Yorkshire is a phased array OTH radar system it is almost identical to what the Americans use at home.
as for the material a submarine is made from or how fast it goes yes i agree its not always something that matters however it mattered enough that both the USN and RN spent billions to counter the perceived threat with the development of the MK48 ADCAP and Spearfish torpedoes i think that speaks volumes on the threat they perceived, and founded correctly.
If the Mike class went into serial production and was (and yes it was tested) to have the ability to fire a weapon below 850m at a western vessel dont you think you too would want a weapon to counter that threat? the torpedoes of the day couldn't.
The MK48 ADCAP is one of if not the best anti ship/submarine torpedo to date it far exceeds anything the Russians have including VA-111 Skhval, i know for certain i would rather choose the 48 than any other weapon other than spearfish or the now defunct tigerfish.
in 20 years i have probably spent around 7 in Russia and at least 3 of those in the far north.
As for the west building a submarine out of titanium that was deemed by the governments as too costly and unworkable the Russians did have and still do have better gas welding techniques, so much so a lot of titanium parts for a lot of items comes made from Russia, the west is very good with steel however Russia has always been better than us with titanium.
When it comes down to it Russia excels at heavy industry where as the west excels at the service industry and manufacturing.
There's a saying " the west make everything like Swiss watches where as the Russians go at it with a hacksaw and a hand file"
Which i find true to be honest we in the west like fancy things the Russian's just want it to be practical if you look at the F86 its like a sleek sports car compared to the Mig 15 which looks like a tractor.
Russia lags behind in a lot of areas it wasn't until the late 90's waterfall displays started being put into submarines the west had them back in the 70's although i will say a lot of the Russian stuff does use windows (dont think its XP though)