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Originally Posted by Exocet25fr
France is the second Maritime Space after the Yankee 
Maritime power remains a major geopolitical advantage, so long as a country has the means to put it into effect. The increasingly maritime nature of globalization also plays to the advantage of those countries that have a maritime policy worthy of the name. France possesses these advantages and, well aware of the strategic stakes involved, is making a great effort to support its navy. |
Basing purely on the Navy not including army or air force in this
France is no where near second in the maritime sphere to the Americans, its not even close if your basing it on numbers and capability.
There's also still a gulf between France and the UK numerically, Logistically, tactically and strategically and I really hate to brake it to you France is quite a way behind here and here is why.
Currently France maintains a single carrier which IMHO is the best in Europe for multirole operations and strike capability given that it can operate a multitude of American aircraft as well as French and the types of aircraft carried are also quite wide.
Yes when the CDG came into the fleet she had problems but she has actually proved herself a fantastic asset to France and as I said IMHO best carrier in Europe for it and worth the money spent on her.
But that leaves France with a problem, a single carrier cannot be on station or available 100% of the time which leaves the fleet vulnerable or reliant on allied assistance.
The UK yes has cheeped out a little with STOVL carriers but there's reasons for this, but the UK maintains now 2 carriers which means that at least 1 carrier will be available at all times, which immediately gives advantage to the UK strategically in any future engagement.
So where are the numbers at currently?
France Marine National (including ships on charter)
4 SSBN
6 SSN
1 CVN
3 LPH
15 Major surface units
21 Minor surface units
17 Mine warfare units
Total 67 Combat units
Non combat auxiliary units
2 Fleet replenishment
4 Reasearch and intelligence ships
5 Survey vessels
Total 11 non combat units
Total 78 naval assets
UK Naval assets (including charter and RFA)
4 SSBN
6 SSN (7th to be commissioned very soon)
2 CV
18 Major surface units
26 Minor surface units
11 Mine Warfare units
Total 69 Combat units
Non combat auxiliary units
7 Fleet replenishment
3 Landing ships
5 Research vessels
4 RoRo charters
1 Casualty and aviation ship (due to decommission very soon)
1 Commercial Tanker
Total 21 Non combat units
Total naval assets 90
There is one key area I want to point your attention too and it makes the world of difference between the UK and France, that is the Logistics arm, the numbers above matter not if you cannot supply the vessels underway while beyond your own borders or friendly ports.
(NOTE: I am going to base the next bit on a rough guide on how long you can stretch the AO’s out for its not 100% accurate as I cannot disclose true figures)
France maintains only 2 replenishment ships which is enough to support a carrier group only for a couple of weeks on station (if we didn’t re supply them) in full swing other than that they are heavily reliant on allied assistance (usually Germany UK and USA) or a friendly port.
The UK in contrast has 7 dedicated fleet replenishment ships, these can maintain a carrier strike group in full swing for an average of 7 weeks (if we didn’t re supply them) the reality is much less as you wouldn’t sail all 7 together so 3 to 5 weeks would be the norm also note UK AO’s are much larger than their French counterparts.
In terms of logistical capabilities the UK surpasses even the USA here, strange but true, there are more ports in more countries around the world open to UK combat and non combat vessels than there are American, there are more ships on the UK register available to be taken up from trade than France or the USA, the UK also has substantial overseas territories available to base or operate its vessels regardless if there is a full time presence or not.
The UK Maintains 21 full time naval overseas bases, France maintains only 11 naval overseas bases, in contrast the USA maintains 15 bases for naval purposes.
The UK has access like France to all NATO ports, the UK like the USA but not France has access to ports in Japan, Australia, many gulf states, Israel and South Korea.
Unlike the USA or France the UK has the ability to access Egypt, Singapore, India, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Thailand, New Zealand, Chile and many others in the southern and central American states, and multiple African, Asian, Caribbean and Gulf states. (too long to list individually)
The UK unlike France or the USA can also call upon the commonwealth to supplement forces, indeed you will know that we have Australian, Canadian, New Zealand, Jamaican, Barbadian and many other personnel from the commonwealth in the Royal Navy (Works in reverse too with RN personnel working in other navies including the USN)
This is a significant, the reason its significant is because it means that UK vessels have the ability to resupply pretty much anywhere around the globe something the French and even to a degree the US navy does not have (and one of the main reasons why the USN has a large Auxiliary force).
As I said at the beginning its not all about numbers of ships its about the ability to supply the ships while they are in operation, after all if you cannot supply the ship the ship is useless.
and if you want proof of the logistical problems China and Russia are great case studies for this (Studied both at great length), even China with the worlds largest navy by hull count still cannot operate in any meaningful way for extended periods beyond its region it doesn’t have the logistical capability to do so neither does Russia.
UK naval assets are very heavily used globally, while France does not maintain the same tempo or operational fields and does not maintain presence in many areas permanently like the USN or RN does.
If you were to take a like for like ship and measure its deployment tempo across France the UK and USA the UK asset is more heavily utilised than both the US or France, its why after around the 27 year mark the UK asset is basically worn out completely where as French assets last a little longer around 30-32 years and the USA 35-40 years on average.
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Maritime power remains a major geopolitical advantage, so long as a country has the means to put it into effect
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So no France is in no way second in terms of maritime power behind the USA for the aforementioned reasons it has limited capability in putting its power in effect well beyond its borders without allied assistance for long durations but with that said France still does maintain a very good navy that’s good at power projection, it is modern capable and effective and is rated blue water like the USA and UK. (Tier 2 blue water jointly with the UK under the Todd and Lindberg classification system)
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Amateur's study tactics professionals study logistics - Napoleon Bonaparte
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I'm sure you can guess what field I work in and study
Space
In terms of space development the UK is lacking behind the French here and that’s more because we work closely with the Americans for joint program developments and also ESA.
Currently the UK budget is around £470 million for space projects where as the French are far ahead with a budget of around €2.4bn.
France also has an advantage as they use Guyana for launching rockets the UK does not have that capability, we rely on France and the USA to launch our stuff.
France also gets paid by ESA to maintain a sizeable space economy on behalf of several smaller nations and works substantially with many EU countries in this area.
What France does not have though is access to sensitive American satellites, something the UK does have which is done under the five eyes program so that’s probably why our space economy is rather behind in terms of funding and developments.
In terms of Ranking Russia would come 2nd to the USA their space program is far larger than the French they also have much more invested in space tech, and currently Russia operates the only vehicle to get astronauts / cosmonauts into space.
France has never put a human into space on the back of one of its own rockets (neither has the British) to say France ranks 2nd is not true and soon France will likely fall into 4th place behind China if it hasn't already.