[Sailor Steve]

What makes a country "great"? America is a nation full of people. We supposedly have a freely elected government, and yet the national pastime is complaining about that very government. Go ahead, Yubba/Torvald, now is your chance to once again divert the true discussion by blaming it on the Libs/Cons. But that is also a favorite sport in most other countries.

America was the first country to be created out of whole cloth, based on principles rather than domination, coercion or subjection. But it wasn't from thin air. Those principles were adapted from the ideas of ancient and contemporary philosophers, and developed from a Europe that was in the process of reinventing itself. Being on a different continent helped accelerate the change, and the principles adapted here found their way back to the mother countries. Our forbears shaped the ideas that created America, and America bounced them right back to influence the rest of the world.

But people and times change. Today we still talk about freedom, but we hand over the reins of power to whoever will take care of us. The same is true anywhere, and every nation has its ups and downs. I see many Americans, including some on these boards, who are more concerned with the idea of America being strong, or great, than with the ideals that made us what we are in the first place.

America still has the strongest military in the world, but that's not what made us great in the first place. Today many other countries live by the ideals of freedom and justice, and are every bit as good as any.

And that's my point. Is America a better place to live than any other advanced modern nation? Ask Dowly. Ask Jimbuna. Ask McBeck. Ask Skybird. No, we are not "better", but we are just as good, and that's what really counts. It's the ideals that America is supposed to stand for, not the country itself. National pride is fine. National arrogance is not.