[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Lionclaw

D'oh... I've managed make a fool of myself again.

I hate making mistakes... I shouldn't have posted in this thread at all.
Self confidence takes another hit.


Sorry, I usually only read these discussions you people have, if participating as you've witnessed I forget about other things, make myself look dumber (don't know if that's the right word I'm looking for) than I am. I'm not really comfortable with social interaction with people I don't know, I get insecure. But I guess it's good to practice.

I should've stuck to "not getting into debates", it only goes bad.

Sorry, I'll stay clear in the future.

Apologies for not responding sooner, been sick the last week or so.

I do not feel you have made a fool of yourself at all. I can certainly understand why people in general can get confused over the issue. Most do not have a scientific background and cannot fully grasp the science involved or understand the scientific papers properly. It is not their fault, you do need training to be able to follow it well. The issue is so clouded as people try then to get their information from spokesmen and media outlets they trust. The problem is these outlets often do not understand the issues any better either and yet are trying to put their own opinions on the subject out, often due to political or financial interests which biases everything they say.

Anyhow I almost always welcome different opinions. If I disagree with them then I will challenge the person to either back them up, or consider altering their opinion. My own opinions are usually pretty flexible and will change if enough compelling evidence is presented to show that my current opinion is faulty.

Originally Posted by August

I see your point but i'd say that a much, much higher priority would to get world human populations stabilized at sustainable levels or which fuel we use to power our cars will not matter at all.

You have my total agreement on that point. Though I think our population needs to drop by a couple billion to end up with true sustainability without putting undue pressure on the rest of the planet and species therein.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Yet, for some reason, we've decided that this particular climate is THE climate our planet needs to maintain.

I certainly agree that there is way too much nonsense, fear mongering, and 3rd party crap in the whole debate. But we do have a vested interest to maintain our current global environment, financially and otherwise. If the ice melts the oceans will rise flooding large sections of densely inhabited areas. The damage will be in the trillions if allowed, and cost many billions to build dikes to protect all the vulnerable cities.

Then of course there is the ecological concerns which could have a dire impact on our own species. When I talk about the potential for mass extinction, I am being quite serious as the potential is very real. Other mass extinctions have happened in the past under similar circumstances to what we seem to be heading toward. Nature itself is highly interconnected, and loosing one or more species can have a trickle down effect taking out other species which can trigger a domino effect wiping out all but the most flexible and independent species. Depending on what happens, and which theories prove to be most correct, the consequences could well be very bad. My own worries are very well founded in my opinion based on the research I have done into it.

Originally Posted by SteamWake

More withdrawn 'claims'...

Did you read the article fully? Scientific papers get withdrawn all the time which is perfectly normal. This one got pulled as a few errors were discovered which rendered those calculations invalid. A new paper with corrections will probably get submitted sometime in the future.

In a statement the authors of the paper said: "Since publication of our paper we have become aware of two mistakes which impact the detailed estimation of future sea level rise. This means that we can no longer draw firm conclusions regarding 21st century sea level rise from this study without further work.

"One mistake was a miscalculation; the other was not to allow fully for temperature change over the past 2,000 years. Because of these issues we have retracted the paper and will now invest in the further work needed to correct these mistakes."

All that shows is their own estimates are faulty. It doesn't throw off the rest of the research, or disprove anything. Just that the numbers are off as they didn't properly account for a variable, and made a calculation error.


I have to say I am getting rather tired of seeing this stuff in the media, with them drawing all kinds of completely false conclusions, then having people hold it up and say "look see I told you its all a lie and this proves it". It doesn't prove <censored> all.