[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by SandyCaesar

I've done a bit of research, and I wanted somebody to confirm my results regarding (conventional) ASuW doctrine during the Cold War.

As far as I can tell, the West focused on arming their attack subs with torpedoes (WWII straight-runners, Mk37, Mk48 for US; Mk8, Tigerfish, and Spearfish for UK, and others) and missiles (i.e. Harpoon, TASM). On the other hand, your everyday Russian attack submarine was armed almost exclusively with torpedoes for ASuW (53-65, SET-65, TEST-71, USET-80, and 65-76 for those who can carry it),

Don't forget the SET-53. The TEST-71 actually is antisubmarine in its role, and the USET is universal.

with ASW cruise missiles that wouldn't be very helpful in a convoy strike. Instead, ASuW missiles were regarded as the sole territory of dedicated SSG/SSGNs (SS-N-7/9/19), or nuclear variants like the SS-N-21; Harpoonski and Sunburn apparently never entered service with submarines.

The SS-N-25, no. the SS-N-22 ... sources in the 90s have often mentioned that in the 80s, a P-100, which is a variant of the early P-80 (one of TWO types of missile NATO called "Sunburn", the other being the 3M80/P-270 series) for submarines.

Am I correct here? And regarding the torpedoes--since the torps were all short-ranged (except the jumbo 65-76), did that mean that SSNs lacked a standoff ASuW weapon? What would be their doctrine, then?

According to Milan Vego's Soviet Naval Tactics, which AFAIK is the best single open-source discussion of Russian naval tactics in English, the Soviets will basically use cooperative tactics whenever the target (for example, a CVBG, but maybe not a single ship) warrants it and such an attack is possible. So ideally, there will be both a SSGN and a SSN (or several) in range of the target that needs attacking, and the two's attacks will be coordinated. If there are any planes and surface ships in range, the Russians will try to coordinate their attack as well.

First, to put it into perspective, the Soviet torpedo ranges weren't that short. Only the Mk48 and Spearfish (the latter didn't have such a great start) with their Otto-fueled engines started to eclipse those ranges.

For the missiles, it is more the reverse. After a brief flirtation on both sides with land-attack cruise missiles, it was the Soviets who really continued to play with SSMs for awhile. At that time, it was quite impossible to make a SSM that will fire from a torpedo tube, so basically SSGNs with dedicated missile tubes were the only way to go if you wanted SSMs on subs. The Americans only started putting missiles onto subs when the late 70s managed to refine turbojets to the point they can fit onto missiles with bodies no wider than 53cm.