Hylander, try reading my first post in this topic.
As far as welfare states that become totalitarian. The need for socialist reforms and a welfare state has created totalitarian countries in Europe during the 20th century. As for USSR and others, try checking my first post.
As for you quotes. Yes, they are nice and meaningful, yet when most of the society has nothing to eat or sleep in, what will you do then? Talk about liberty, when security is needed? What about New deal? Do you think Roosevelt was a communist?
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