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Originally Posted by Buddahaid
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Originally Posted by tater
Actually, in RL a USN sub skipper would almost NEVER report a contact.
It was only likely they would do so if they carried specific orders to, and even then they'd not do so unless it was impossible for them to attack, and only then if it was a high-value target. They were very very concerned about enemy DF gear.
I NEVER report contacts, though I know the game wants me to, I simply cannot suspend disbelief and do so.
The real "silent service" was indeed silent. When we started messing with small pack tactics (3 boats, usually) it was hard to get the skippers to even use short range radios with 3 letter code groups because they were so totally used to the doctrine of "no radio use, EVER."
The range to make contact reports in SH4 is grossly short. To have any sense of realism, the range should be set from 4500 yards or whatever it is to maybe 25,000 yards. Any such reports should only be made if there is ZERO chance of making an end around, and only then if the target has real value (a task force, or decent sized convoy).
tater
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I disagree. The wolf packs frequently contacted each other to coordinate the attacks according to 'Silent Victory'. Also, many boats would report the contact after their attack was over and they were clear. Something you can't do in SH4! There were orders to report first and attack second issued, which you mentioned, when the boats were used as a scouting line during invasions. This was amended to shoot first after some juicy targets were missed. Again, according to Clay Blaire's 'Silent Victory'.
Buddahaid |
Yes, specific orders as you point out, but they were rescinded as you say.
I didn't say that our late war packs never used the radio, but rather that it was hard to convince the skippers to do so (they eventually got better at it). When they started, however, it was like pulling teeth to get them to be as chatty as they needed to be for effective pack tactics. Most boats would err on the side of silence at the beginning of wolf packs, decreasing their effectiveness.
But again, short ranged radios, and packs, something impossible in SH4 anyway.
As for after attacks were over, yeah, they might well make a radio report, but "in the clear" is important. That doesn't mean just a few thousand yards away, it means safe from retribution. Maybe the next night if it was a daylight attack, or perhaps the same night if they could run free and fast on the surface to get away from the scene. The fear would be that air units would appear and force them to remain submerged, limiting their ability to get away. If you keep a sub down long enough, it eventually has to come up, and even IJN doctrine recognized this.
So I stand by the fact that US subs (barring orders like picket boats tasked to do intel (and attack)) would shoot first, and only report if shooting was no option, or they had already attacked. Pre-attack radio contact as the only radio paradigm in game is making some tiny fraction of a percent of fleet boat comms the ONLY method in game.
As for "judgement calls" by the skipper, captains do what they were trained to do. Timing matters (within the war).
Early in the war, skippers even attacked from 100ft down since that was the doctrine at the start of the war. Those (largely older) skippers were replaced with more aggressive guys, and things changed. Silence did not change til later in the war, though. Sure, they'd likely report a TF or convoy early on if they could not attack, but again, when safe to do so. IJN DF gear was actually good, but more importantly, USN doctrine assumed it was far better than it actually was (just as they assumed that air was more capable than it really was in spotting subs).
Late in the war, they were more likely to use the radio, particularly the short range sets in packs.
The current engine seems designed around the KM's overuse of the radio to call home, then central direction from the mainland.
tater