SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - What would have happened if Germany didn't declare on US after Pearl Harbor?

predavolk · 10-23-08, 08:07 AM

Roosevelt was highly sympathetic to the British, and American arms were flowing to the British for cheap, and American volunteers were going over to fight in ever increasing numbers. A declaration of war was imminent.

If the US hadn't gotten involved against Germany, little would have changed. People dramatically overestimate the importance of the US in the fight against Germany. Sure, their industry was important. But the Western front was mostly British and Canadians (3 of 5 Normandy beaches). And the Western front was, as someone rightly pointed out, a mere side-show to the epic struggle against the USSR. Hitler was doomed when he failed to knock out the Soviets in the first round of 1941. Despite Stalin's whining and complaining, US and British aid was most certainly not required for the Soviets to demolish the Germans. Their factories were ridiculously out of German reach, their manpower was colossal, and they were about to unleash the most important weapon of the war- the T-34. Bombing the Reich helped speed things up a little, as did invading from the West. But the Soviets were already crushing the Germans handily before the Allies invaded.

I'm often amazed, at least briefly, about how pro-American most accounts of WW2 are. Absolutely, the US was the chief architect of victory in the Pacific. But their contributions to the war against Germany were about as important as the contributions of Britain and her allies against Japan. Japan was doomed when it attacked the US, Germany was doomed when it attacked the Soviet Union and failed to knock out Stalin in year 1. The inevitable battles of attrition that followed massively favored the US and the USSR.

Britain (and Canada, the forgotten 6th power) were important in first denting the image of Germany as undefeatable, but Hitler could have signed a peace agreement with them (and the US) in 1942 and he still would've lost the war. Badly.

Now if Japan and Germany had turned on the USSR instead- maybe that would've worked. Germany and the US against Japan and the USSR? Unlikely at that point in the war, and it probably would've ended with the US taking out Japan while the USSR took out Germany.

10-23-08, 08:07 AM	#6
predavolk Weps Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 369 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Roosevelt was highly sympathetic to the British, and American arms were flowing to the British for cheap, and American volunteers were going over to fight in ever increasing numbers. A declaration of war was imminent. If the US hadn't gotten involved against Germany, little would have changed. People dramatically overestimate the importance of the US in the fight against Germany. Sure, their industry was important. But the Western front was mostly British and Canadians (3 of 5 Normandy beaches). And the Western front was, as someone rightly pointed out, a mere side-show to the epic struggle against the USSR. Hitler was doomed when he failed to knock out the Soviets in the first round of 1941. Despite Stalin's whining and complaining, US and British aid was most certainly not required for the Soviets to demolish the Germans. Their factories were ridiculously out of German reach, their manpower was colossal, and they were about to unleash the most important weapon of the war- the T-34. Bombing the Reich helped speed things up a little, as did invading from the West. But the Soviets were already crushing the Germans handily before the Allies invaded. I'm often amazed, at least briefly, about how pro-American most accounts of WW2 are. Absolutely, the US was the chief architect of victory in the Pacific. But their contributions to the war against Germany were about as important as the contributions of Britain and her allies against Japan. Japan was doomed when it attacked the US, Germany was doomed when it attacked the Soviet Union and failed to knock out Stalin in year 1. The inevitable battles of attrition that followed massively favored the US and the USSR. Britain (and Canada, the forgotten 6th power) were important in first denting the image of Germany as undefeatable, but Hitler could have signed a peace agreement with them (and the US) in 1942 and he still would've lost the war. Badly. Now if Japan and Germany had turned on the USSR instead- maybe that would've worked. Germany and the US against Japan and the USSR? Unlikely at that point in the war, and it probably would've ended with the US taking out Japan while the USSR took out Germany.