[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Blacklight

But unfortunately, those investors are investing mostly overseas now because doing business is so much cheaper over there. And they're keeping their money and re-investing it overseas so they aren't trickleing it down like the Republican Trickle Down theory says it should work. So while they're making the cash, they arent growing anything in the US so the lower classes are losing jobs and getting paid less.

I get the feeling that you did not understand the argument I made. The reason the rich are investing overseas is because of state prevalence in the U.S. economy.

As you said, they do so because it is cheaper. And in many cases, that is not a bad thing. A lot of U.S. factory labor was exported in the past half-century, but the standard of living consistently risen. We transitioned into a service economy. Service jobs took the place of factory jobs. Corporations with significant multinational interests took the place of smaller businesses.

But, as we did all this, government grew as well. People trusted government to "fix" unequal outcomes created by the market. As a result, public debt grew and government became more involved with corporations. In some cases, that resulted in huge government bailouts of corporations that should have died. Do I need to cite examples? In other cases, it resulted in business suffering because of the costs associated with excessive regulation.

It is very expensive to start a business in America today. (not always, but I'm getting to that). The number of permits and licenses that must be obtained is staggering. All of those cost money. In the case of the EPA a business must file an environmental impact statement that can take years to get approved and cost thousands of dollars. In the meantime, the prospective business owner is sitting on the sidelines, losing money in the form of property tax for his building area and in potential profits. I'm sure you have heard the adage that "time is money". It is true, and the state makes it even more true, often with deleterious effects on competition and economic freedom.

Obviously, only people with a considerable amount of wealth can start a business. The rest of us would go bankrupt just waiting for government approval. That harms competition. But, many people choose another option. They get loans. Many of these loans are considered "high-risk". Large banks are willing to invest in these companies because they expect the government to bail them out if a large number of these loans are defaulted.
Should that happen, more public debt is incurred, taxes and inflation affect the common people more and the cycle continues. Result; recession. In the worst cases; depression. And even worse than that, the wealthy are in control. I'm sure that all champions of liberal economic policy would agree that that is a bad thing.

If government intervention in business was to be reduced to the absolute minimum
required to encourage competition and fair trade practices the economy would prosper. Who cares if crappy factory jobs or tech support jobs or whatever are exported? As long as the companies that create these jobs are based in the U.S., we benefit. Almost all the revenue that said jobs create is funneled back into the corporations that control them. We must ensure that these corporations are based in the U.S. White-collar jobs take the place of blue-collar jobs. Industrial jobs are replaced by service jobs. The general standard of living improves.

Generally speaking, this is what the U.S. has been doing for almost 200 years, despite a constant trend towards socialism. Even with some of the socialist domestic policies and interventionist foreign policies the U.S. has pursued in this century, we remain a major world power. This is only because of the U.S. Constitution and its' limitations over state control. (and these are gradually being overcome by the left and the neo-con right)

Need proof? China, Russia, India. All big nations, all rich in resources, and all poor.
The only thing that differentiates them from the U.S. is the level of economic freedom. It is no surprise that China's "Special Economic Zones" generate more income then the rest of the country. It is also no surprise that the Soviet Union failed. Economic freedom is the key.


I don't have a solution for the whole world. Competition over resources and political power will always leave many in poverty. But I do have a solution for the U.S., and it includes actually adhering to the priniciples the nation was founded upon.

Freedom in trade, thought, and practice must ever be the watchwords that we balance against the state.

Originally Posted by Blacklight

In my state, jobs are almost impossible to find now unless you have a masters degree and even positions that require those are pretty full and new businesses just don't like starting up here (and those that are here are trying to move overseas and are laying people off on a constant basis).

Even with the state of the economy today I doubt that. I think you mean to say that jobs which meet your standards are almost impossible to find.

Recession sucks. Keep the state from contributing to it.