SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - U-484's demise and controversy

Seaveins · 09-18-08, 08:15 AM

[quote=Randomizer]According to the book The Canadian Naval Chronicle (F.McKee and R. Darlington) credit for sinking U-484 (KK W.A. Schaefer) was eventually given to the RCN since a Mention in Dispatches was awarded to LCdr Nicholson of HMCS Hespeler in October 1945. The attack on U-484 employed a combination of depth charges, Hedgehog and Squid and the narrative indicates that Squid was the decisive weapon.

quote]

The controversy I was referring to started around 1996 when R. N. Coppock of the Royal Navy's historical section determined that it was more likely that Porchester Castle and Helmsdale had sunk U-484. I have been reading the accounts of veterans that are disputing this. I am lucky to work with someone who's grandfather, Edward Lodge, was on the HMCS Hespeler (AA gunner) during the attack. He has an unbelievable memory of this and even provided copies from his war diary of the applicable period. An example of what I am reading from pages Thursday, Sept. 7, 1944 through Tuesday, Sept. 12, 1944:

"(9/7/44) Nothing happened last night. I was sure surprised as we expected to be attacked. We were supposed to have 14 days in this time so I put in for 7 days to see (aunt in UK). I may have got it but we were signaled later on that we are joining a task force to hunt subs as soon as we refuel. We will be in early tomorrow. Nothing should bother us tonight as about 20 ships came out to meet us. (9/8/44) I was wrong!! At 4.25 this morning "Action" rang. I went up with a flannel, dungarees, and runners on. We were one hour from harbour and a ship was torpedoed. We were about 15 min. when the skipper told us the rescue ship had just went down. We were at "stations" for 2 hrs. I nearly froze as it was cold and real windy, and we were soaked. An English trawler picked up 87 survivors and (121 missing) around a sub after sighting two (so the buzz goes). We came in this afternoon and expect to go out again in the night. (9/9/44) We left (Movile?) at 0015 and two hours later picked up a contact and went to "action stat". We dropped one pattern and nothing happened. The second caused explosions. Nothing the third. Fourth caused explosions and the fifth brought something up which the Dunver said was a sub. We secured at 4.30 AM. (9/10/44) Tons of oil, wreckage, and bodies about. We had "action stations" again a few times but nothing for sure. A couple of times the Asdic heard motors so we are sure there is something around. (9/11/44) Action Stations again at 5.30 PM as a sub was seen by an aircraft. We had loads of contacts and dropped patterns. We secured a couple of hours later after seeing loads of dead fish and nothing else. We closed up a few more times but no results. Our mail is on a ship only a mile away but we can't get it. I feel sorry for the fellows down below when we are dropping patterns. (9/12/44) We went up the Foyle to about 13 miles from (Derey?) at seven p.m. we took on a lot of squid charges (hedgehog for Dunver) and then had supper about 10.30. We are going out again tonight."

I thought our forum members might enjoy reading this unpublished account from the other side of the battle.

-Seaveins

09-18-08, 08:15 AM	#10
Seaveins Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Burke, VA, USA Posts: 44 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Credit was disputed recently [quote=Randomizer]According to the book The Canadian Naval Chronicle (F.McKee and R. Darlington) credit for sinking U-484 (KK W.A. Schaefer) was eventually given to the RCN since a Mention in Dispatches was awarded to LCdr Nicholson of HMCS Hespeler in October 1945. The attack on U-484 employed a combination of depth charges, Hedgehog and Squid and the narrative indicates that Squid was the decisive weapon. quote] The controversy I was referring to started around 1996 when R. N. Coppock of the Royal Navy's historical section determined that it was more likely that Porchester Castle and Helmsdale had sunk U-484. I have been reading the accounts of veterans that are disputing this. I am lucky to work with someone who's grandfather, Edward Lodge, was on the HMCS Hespeler (AA gunner) during the attack. He has an unbelievable memory of this and even provided copies from his war diary of the applicable period. An example of what I am reading from pages Thursday, Sept. 7, 1944 through Tuesday, Sept. 12, 1944: "(9/7/44) Nothing happened last night. I was sure surprised as we expected to be attacked. We were supposed to have 14 days in this time so I put in for 7 days to see (aunt in UK). I may have got it but we were signaled later on that we are joining a task force to hunt subs as soon as we refuel. We will be in early tomorrow. Nothing should bother us tonight as about 20 ships came out to meet us. (9/8/44) I was wrong!! At 4.25 this morning "Action" rang. I went up with a flannel, dungarees, and runners on. We were one hour from harbour and a ship was torpedoed. We were about 15 min. when the skipper told us the rescue ship had just went down. We were at "stations" for 2 hrs. I nearly froze as it was cold and real windy, and we were soaked. An English trawler picked up 87 survivors and (121 missing) around a sub after sighting two (so the buzz goes). We came in this afternoon and expect to go out again in the night. (9/9/44) We left (Movile?) at 0015 and two hours later picked up a contact and went to "action stat". We dropped one pattern and nothing happened. The second caused explosions. Nothing the third. Fourth caused explosions and the fifth brought something up which the Dunver said was a sub. We secured at 4.30 AM. (9/10/44) Tons of oil, wreckage, and bodies about. We had "action stations" again a few times but nothing for sure. A couple of times the Asdic heard motors so we are sure there is something around. (9/11/44) Action Stations again at 5.30 PM as a sub was seen by an aircraft. We had loads of contacts and dropped patterns. We secured a couple of hours later after seeing loads of dead fish and nothing else. We closed up a few more times but no results. Our mail is on a ship only a mile away but we can't get it. I feel sorry for the fellows down below when we are dropping patterns. (9/12/44) We went up the Foyle to about 13 miles from (Derey?) at seven p.m. we took on a lot of squid charges (hedgehog for Dunver) and then had supper about 10.30. We are going out again tonight." I thought our forum members might enjoy reading this unpublished account from the other side of the battle. -Seaveins