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Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II
Finally, it is people like SB, who tries out other ways of tallying up the score, to place themselves in other people's shoes, that will understand other nations like Russia, be it to befriend her or to stop her more effectively, to pinch her where her leaders would agree it hurts.
As for the whole "push the other nations into NATO's bag" thing? Those nations were gone to begin with. Putin's only choices are a) have them proceed with anti-Russian policies while smiling at Russia, b) have them proceed with anti-Russian policies while frowning at Russia, and c) have them scared stiff of Russia enough they cease. (D: They stop being anti-Russia because they like Russia, had already been tried from 1990 onwards and proved to only turn into A). SD's perception is typical Westerner - even a small improvement in relationships is worth it even if decisions don't change much. Russia's perception, based on action, is more like A and B are not very different, and so there's nothing real to lose there, and any chance of C is worth shooting for.
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Spare me Kazuaki. This has nothing to do with somebody putting themselves in anybody's shoes here. The individual in question doesn't do that at all. It has been merely attempting to underscore true events here from a single point of view that doesn't exactly add up correctly to events that have occured. As a matter of fact, the individual you speak of is merely providing false propaganda and energetically promoting Russia's point of view...and it's a typical pattern with this person. The West, in particular the USA can never do anything right. And are dependant fully on Russia for everything. Meanwhile Russia doesn't care about the things we offer as it's all worthless and meaningless.
What a total joke, and completely lopsided horse pucky. Not that I mind this individual's point of view, but spare me the window dressing here. This individual is not an unbiased person who sees things fairly and from an open mind at all. It always goes in one single direction everytime. Thusly, I can't take your post above seriously regarding this matter.
On the other matter, Russia understands the inevitability of the situation anyway. You're saying making enemies out of NATO, and in particular the USA is beneficial to Russia? You're supporting the point of view that NATO is hostile to Russia by treating former Soviet client nations as sovereign nations.
Does making friends with former enemies truly threaten Russia? Or is it just deep seeded paranoia? Are these nations actually sovereign nations to you Kazuaki, or are they merely slave states to Russia who should only serve Russia's interests even at the expense of their own? Are you serious? The thing is Kazuaki,
Russia is like that abusive and jealous ex-husband who used to beat his wife...and now tries to prevent her from seeking other relationships, and indeed turns to stalking her. Then wonders why nobody likes him or thinks he's creepy. We're talking about sovereign nations Kazuaki. I don't give a rat's rear end who's point of view you're looking at it from. Either you respect the right of nations to make decisions for themselves and their own interests.....or you can be like Russia who does not respect the rights of sovereign nations and attempts forced coercion through military threats. Russia is stupidly choosing to make enemies out of those who were not enemies at all. And that includes NATO and the USA.
NATO even offered them a seat at the table as an observer with the US blessing. And of course Russia screwed that up. If Russia was smart, and NATO membership in these former states was inevitable, wouldn't it be alot smarter to actually use that seat as a way towards nominal relations? I think that actually sounds quite reasonable really.
You simply cannot quibble any of this away. Nor can you make yourself look like an unbiased source looking at it "from all perspectives" yourself. If you believe that Russia is proceeding smartly by breaking their cease fire agreements brokered by the French, is proceeding smartly by increasing their likelihood of economic isolation (perhaps you believe like Skybird that Russia is greater economically than most of the developed nations and needs no trade, no technology sharing or transfers, no food imports, or no lucrative commercial contracts etc. etc. etc. ),or if you believe they have proceeded smartly by turning themselves into a hostile player against those they wished to revolve around it's orbit...and now have helped bring NATO right next door (and have ticked them off to boot), then I guess I'll just have to disagree with you. I can see how Russia has made all the things they didn't want actually come to fruition. What a mess Russia has made for itself. If you can't see it, that's fine with me.