[Happy Times]

Hogwash...This hasn't been brought about by Russia all by itself.

I admit the Russian govt. has screwed up diplomatically and should have done its job and pulled back its troops into Southern Ossetia straight away. Put it didn't.

However all the handwringing in Europe and the US about Russia breaking international law, but paid no attention to the Russian government objections over Kosova which have been pointed out earlier in this thread is what annoys me. Taking everything that Sakashvilli says at face value.

This thing has been cooking a little longer than the invasion of Georgia. Last year were the riots and attacks against Estonia etc.. FSBs agents have been busy bees for a long time.

You really must be paranoid to think the Russia or its government wants to charge into former republics like Ukraine or the Baltic states. Either that or you think Medvedev and Putin are thick. Russia might like the Crimea back but to think they would risk a full blow war over it. Like Sky says Russia takes the long view. Ukraine has elections soon, Yushenko is unpopular and half of Ukraine is ethnic Russian.

They are thick, thats evident allready. They have now shown that when FSB cant deliver, the Army goes in. Yet they failed with that also, as Shakavili is still in power, im sure Vladimir is biting his nails.

Skybird has made good points here and fairly analysed them and dissected them.

Skybird is very intelligent and i respect him, but that doesnt meen he couldnt be partially or totally wrong. In an earlier thread he explained his vision of the future.

"Currently, russian investements are buying off Western corporation shares like crazy, with incredible sums of money. Only the Gulf states and china surpass them. They seem to follow the same tactic like the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia: biting off a big enough share of western industry to have a word in its control and in the future, when they run thin on oil and gas (we are talking 20, 30 years btw), they will shave off the cream from industrial profits they make with ex-western companies that are not so exclusively western-owned, then. Then WE will work for THEM, and for the Arabs. Serves us right, stupidly bragging as we do."

"So let's see who will grin wider in the end. I don't bet my money on the West. We need them more than they need us - and that is a bad start to begin a match with."

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=141010&page=2

This is something i am positive will never happen. EU and US will not let it happen and contrary to Skys belief, they dont have to. So we disagree, not much to argue after that is established.

All you seem to be able to do is just regurgitate the same speil that is deep rooted in your dislike for Russia and Russians

And accusing me of racism and fasicm is getting old, i am neither and i hope people start to back these claims up with proof.

Putin is no Hitler, and I wouldn't call him a dictator. Have you been to Russia recently? I have and hey I didn't see any sign of a dictatorship, didn't see anyone walking in fear or people afraid to talk about events or criticise the Kremlin. I'm sure you'll point out the Kremlin squashing certain newspapers and TV stations, but you think the Russians just get info by that. There are plenty of Russian publications available via the net and other sources, and I have not seen any move to have them shut down, no web filtering a la China.

Ive never heard that Third Reich was a bad place for Nazis either.
In a modern world its hard to have exatcly the same kind of dictatorship as you had in the 40s. Critisising Kremlin privatly isnt a threat to them, but im sure it will stop many careers and opportunities. A threat it becomes when one tries to get this message out through politics or dissidency. Political rights and civil liberties are almost gone in Russia and the trend isnt up. You must know that the free media you claim is plenty, doesnt reach practically anyone in Russia, hence it isnt a threat.