[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by jeremy8529

I want this to go in order, from extreme, to middle, on both sides of the wall, until we answer the question, (or we think we have answered the question) "What is the ideal system of goverment?"

"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits."
--Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.

"Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities."
-Thomas Jefferson; first inaugural address, March 4, 1801

"The true theory of our Constitution is surely the wisest and best, that the states are independent as to everything within themselves, and united as to everything respecting foreign nations."
-Thomas Jefferson; letter to Gideon Granger, August 13, 1800

I know they're only quotes, and not thoughts from me, but that pretty much sums up my idea of the perfect government. Of course quoting Jefferson, Madison, or any of the Founders is always risky, because they all said different things at different times and in different contexts. Also quoting the Federalist is interesting, because while the papers are considered to be one of the finest collections of thinking on modern democratic government, it's good to remember that they were written by three men who were trying to sell the idea of a stronger Federal Government to a nation of citizens who wanted exactly the opposite. The states didn't want to relinquish their power to a higher authority (much like opposition to a World Government today), but were forced to realize that the previous system wasn't working.

The Framers at the Constitutional Convention are sometimes looked at today as a group of divinely inspired Solomons, who sat down and worked out the perfect system. In actuality they were a group of individuals, some intelligent, some political geniouses, and some who were beaurocrats taking up space. Each one had his own vision of the perfect government, and no two were exactly the same. It took months of wrangling, arguing, backbiting, double-dealing, negotiating and finally - that word despised by all true patriots today - compromise. Everyone had to give a little, and some ended up giving a lot. And the end result is hardly perfect; but they were smart enough to put in a system for change. They also made sure that while change is possible, it would not be easy.

As for James Madison, who put the Convention together in the first place, and is considered 'The Father of The Constitution', he didn't even want a Bill Of Rights, believing that if they left any out some future generation would jump on it, saying "They didn't mention that one, so they must not have wanted us to have it!" He managed to get that established with the Ninth Amendment, which to my mind is the single most important one, at least where our individual rights is concerned. And that includes the oft-challenged Right to Privacy.

Democracy? Why not? Are the people we elect really more capable than the rest of us? On the whole, no; but they do gain some experience which helps make them more informed if not necessarily more capable. Jefferson's observation that democracy was nothing more than mob rule, with fifty-one percent of the people able to take away the rights of the other forty-nine, certainly has merit, but a representative government is just a smaller mob. While a democracy runs the danger of the people being misled by one smart speaker or another, a republic runs the danger of the representatives being, not easily led, but easily persuaded to make bad decisions in the belief that they will get something good in return. The problem is size and scale. As Madison said, "A pure democracy is a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person."

It's true that limiting terms for congress might encourage members to be more self-aggrandizing, but the current system has member able to make a career out of it, becoming more and more distant from the people they supposedly represent.

Perfect government? Madison again: "If men were angels, no government would be necessary."

So, how do we go about improving it? I don't know, and I don't trust people who claim they do. First, talk instead of preaching. Debate instead of hostility. Realising that people on the opposite side of an argument may not be the lying, cheating power-mongers you believe they are, but might actually believe what they are arguing for. And they might actually have some merit.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should be not victory, but progress."
-Joseph Joubert